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#51 2014-12-09 16:45:17

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

MDEW wrote:

Steven, Thanks for giving an Idea of your approach to a chorus sound. Whenever I tried it always sounded like one guy singing the four parts only, not like a choir. Different settings for each voice recorded?
   Did you add the reverb after to the master or to the individual voice per track?
.

Hi, MDEW.

Yes, different settings, and different voice production, especially in the lower parts, where (as a lyric bass) I have more control.

Here is the recording pattern:
Start with the bottom bass part.

1. Medium volume voice, medium volume record.  this is the reference performance
2. Extra ring,  back off the recording 3dB from reference
3. Softer than medium voice, less ringy, increase recording 6dB above reference.

That gives me the 3 types of voices I want in the blend.  When the 3rd track is laid down, I pretty well know how it will sound.

4-6... Repeat 1-3 again, same pattern during recording.

Move up to baritone, and repeat. Then 2nd tenor and top tenor.

After all the tracks are in the can, I take each section and balance its volume with the others, using my ears as I Would as a choir conductor (which I am).  Last thing I do is add the reverb on the entire mix, 1pass.

Voila.


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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2014-12-09 16:45:17

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#52 2014-12-09 17:18:28

VIDEOHERE
Administrator
Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 7197
Reputation :   66 

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

awesome steven...so rich

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#53 2014-12-09 18:52:54

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

Steven Fraser wrote:

MDEW wrote:

Steven, Thanks for giving an Idea of your approach to a chorus sound. Whenever I tried it always sounded like one guy singing the four parts only, not like a choir. Different settings for each voice recorded?
   Did you add the reverb after to the master or to the individual voice per track?
.

Hi, MDEW.

Yes, different settings, and different voice production, especially in the lower parts, where (as a lyric bass) I have more control.

Here is the recording pattern:
Start with the bottom bass part.

1. Medium volume voice, medium volume record.  this is the reference performance
2. Extra ring,  back off the recording 3dB from reference
3. Softer than medium voice, less ringy, increase recording 6dB above reference.

That gives me the 3 types of voices I want in the blend.  When the 3rd track is laid down, I pretty well know how it will sound.

4-6... Repeat 1-3 again, same pattern during recording.

Move up to baritone, and repeat. Then 2nd tenor and top tenor.

After all the tracks are in the can, I take each section and balance its volume with the others, using my ears as I Would as a choir conductor (which I am).  Last thing I do is add the reverb on the entire mix, 1pass.

Voila.

You are a lyric bass??? That is awesome, rare breed lol. That explains why the low lows had so much beef behind them. I can sing that low though no problem....................in vocal fry ha ha.

Also didnt know you were a choir conductor, the many layers of the musical yoda. Also was that sample good enough i threw together, or do i need to do something at home on pitch with the piano?

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-09 18:59:02)

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#54 2014-12-09 19:51:43

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

m.i.r.,  if go to the top of the page and click on interviews, it will take you to a page of audio interviews with various voice experts, including Steven, who's interview link is about halfway down the page.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#55 2014-12-10 06:16:04

lovewarrior
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-12-05
Posts: 9
Reputation :   

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

You guys seemed to have hijacked my thread! aaa...

Anyways, Robert and Steven especially... would love it if you guys read Catona's book "Revolution In Singing" and for example made a review on the amazon page (even if its a critical 2 star review, which you know i love...lol). I think its important that these different methods get attention and credit where credit is due and criticism where such is due. You guys have expertise in the technicalities of singing and I think this would serve the singing community well when students such as myself are looking for some direction. Perhaps you dont have the time or interest, but I thought I would just suggest it anyways since I think the book is well argued at least. Maybe his theories are erroneous and do more damage than good? Or maybe he's on to something... it frustrates me that I dont know and have to experiment myself to see if the results will be there or not. He also gave a google talk on this subject so maybe you can start there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBlZrc- … freload=10

I was however corresponding with thim while this thread was going and here's is some of the things he said (nothing that would hurt his reputation, in case you're reading Gary... dont mean disrespect... I just hoped a little more from our correspondance so I have to extend it here)

"you are probably singing in keys that are too high for your "natural" voice. I recommend dropping your keys (even if it's only a half step, but maybe more) and you will likely see a major shift in your singing."

"You should also see/hear more than just a smoother voice.  "

"Please make sure that you are paying close attention to how you are doing the exercises or else you will not reap the real benefits."

"if you read the book in its entirety and more carefully, you would find all your questions answered and you would know, for example, that upper register and falsetto are not the same, and that I am not an advocate of falsetto singing as a way to build the voice, although I recognize it's importance to certain styles of singing."  

"The mental aspect of building your voice singing is certainly addressed in numerous places - particularly when I talk about singing as a kind of sport that needs to be approached as an athlete approaches a sport."  

"My man, please reread the whole book and you will be rewarded."

"IF YOU ARE A BARITONE, YOU SHOULD NOT SING HIGHER THAN AN E-FLAT IN YOUR LOWER REGISTER.  AFTER THAT NOTE YOU SHOULD BE IN THE UPPER REGISTER THROAT POSITION.  IF YOU ARE A TENOR, THE E-NATURAL IS THE LAST NOTE IN YOUR LOWER REGISTER BEFORE SWITCHING TO THE UPPER REGISTER."  

"BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE SCREAMING OUT HIGH NOTES IN THE LOWER REGISTER POSITION WHEN YOU SHOULD BE IN THE UPPER REGISTER POSITION - DURING EXERCISING YOUR VOICE.  THIS COULD CAUSE ANYONE TO LOSE HIS VOICE!  NOW I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU ARE EXERCISING YOUR VOICE NOT SINGING, WHICH REQUIRES THAT YOU SING THE WAY THAT SOUNDS BEST FOR YOU."

"DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE SYSTEM. DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH OTHER KINDS OF EXERCISES."


Gotta appreciate Gary for his bluntness and faith in his approach. I feel that his doubters haven't really applied his system or at least given it a chance. (this includes you Daniel!). Or really listened to what he has to say about singing in full. Its equally possible that my own ignorance on the matter is clouding my judgement. For that I apologize if you feel I am wasting your time (but thats why I originally came here).

Let me know if you have some further thoughts.

I decided to work with Daniel privately concerning my further training as of now. At least to help me decide where to go towards in the future. I will continue doing Catona's voicebuilding for now for my lower register and perhaps supplement it with other stuff.

Btw, in case you're wondering... i have no affiliation whatsoever with Catona or his business.

Last edited by lovewarrior (2014-12-10 06:17:19)

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#56 2014-12-10 06:42:49

Danielformica
TMV Forum Member
From: San Luis Obispo
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 1552
Reputation :   62 
Website

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

the thing is Gary's "voice building" is really just based upon pure vocal function which we will go over. Its doing what the vocal cords do naturally like saying ah ah ah on and f3 it feels right and its great to always have that and keep it consistent. however as far as ":natural range " goes if that was the case and we stayed there i believe singing in general would be slightly boring.  For the reason singing high cs and sailing up there would not be in the game. but no worries if you dig gary that much i agree with the developing the lower and lower middle range because for me that totally helps my upper range.  But i promise to open up the upper limits of your voice and then you can show gary there is a little bit more than a one trick pony attitude.:)

the only thing is because I personally worked with Gary and one of his students Leroy osbourne (in a band of mine). gary's has no idea how to sing passed and f#4(if that). But Leroy who Gary works with because Leroy sings back up with Sade(and sade likes gary) was singing high and great before he met Gary, Leroy was George Michaels back up singer as well as singing with me in a corporate band. Gary did not teach him how to sing, Leroy was doing it since he was much younger. Here is a clip with Leroy and me and hanford(who is great ) Leroy has the 1st song hanford second and yours truly for last song but make no mistake he can sing the stratosphere(stevie wonder , bruno mars etc) as well.

Last edited by Danielformica (2014-12-10 06:59:05)


DANIEL
WWW.YOURVOCALTEACHER.COM
WWW.DANIELFORMICAVOCALSTUDIO.COM
www.soundcloud.com/daniel-formica

Disclaimer-Anything I write or try to help people with on here are techniques and things that have worked for ME.  They are not necessarily" right" or "wrong" but have worked for ME and my 20+ yrs as a professional working
singer.
Thank you

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#57 2014-12-10 07:07:36

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

Damn it Daniel.....I saw that post and was gonna reply when i was done with what i was doing. Come back and you took all the words out of my mouth lol.

All i can say in little different words is his course sounds all about jogging. Safe, natural, without effort after a little training. Also sets a good foundation for running. However, i think a sense of danger is one of the cool things about singing. You hear someone up that high, and you are like holy cow, whats he gonna do up there, how long, is he gonna break. Suddenly you have tension building, that mixed with the music is a nice emotional kick. Yes of course you can use it for release too, just using this as an,example.

Also as daniel said, he can show you how to run safely(well not those exact words lol). Yeah it takes a little more energy and effort, but managed correctly, just like running, it can be sustained. I mean look at well trained opera singers. Even the comfortable middle notes, it definitely isnt natural to build up enough compression and closure to sing at 80 plus db. I have heard some have came close to 100 in the higher mix.

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#58 2014-12-10 10:21:13

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: Gary Catona's Voicebuilding system examined

Well, that keeps me out. I am not an expert.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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