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#1 2014-12-06 15:20:38

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Where is the confounded bridge?

To quote Robert Plant.

In another thread was quite a bit of discussion on bridging in the voice and I think it would have been better as a separate thread, as I think the initial question in the thread title was answered well enough some time ago.

I have heard of bridging and thought I applied it and without thinking what it really is. More of a mental concept than an actual physical thing. Which does not mean I am right. In fact, I am often wrong and do not mind admitting that.

Are there specific frequencies, give or take a few cycles per second, where someone has to do something different with resonance or, if able, to change amount of adduction, though I do not know how that is done, even if I am doing it?

If we are talking resonance, I could just about see that. Because of what resonance is and it is based on wavelength. Higher frequency, shorter wavelength of peak to peak. If one wants a reference, I could point to any grade school book on physics. These days, you can find it quicker. Use your favored search engine and query "wavelength."

And what do people mean by bridging? It is a nice mental concept and how many people think of a tunnel-like house structure over a creek?

How about the Huey Long bridge (La 190) over the Mississippi River as it leads into Baton Rouge? When visiting my BIL, we usually get onto 190 from 49 in Opelousas and go through the Atchafalaya Basin and reservoir. In fact, going through the bayou, there, one is really on a long bridge. And the Long bridge goes a few hundred feet above Ole' Miss, to avoid freighters heading down to New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico.

So, an actual roadway bridge joins two areas of fairly similar terrain and elevation that are separated by some chasm or otherwise not easily passable terrain.

On a guitar, a bridge is a bar across which the strings are drawn. In conjunction with a truss rod controlling curvature of the neck, this keeps the strings at a particular elevation above the fret board, a distance of elevation that players call "the action."

So, what is bridging in singing? Is it different vowel sounds or specific variations of a certain vowel sound? And, a side question maybe, is vowel mod maybe necessary for a beginner and not so much later on? Or is it like swimming with floaties? Swimming with floaties may be more safe but is it better to just jump in and start swimming? (metaphorically speaking.)

Are vowel mods based on preference? Dennis DeYoung seems to prefer and hang most of his long notes on the ee sound. And he has nice and unique sound quality on that sound.

I think, certain vowel sounds create other physical alignments, to an extent, creating a "formant," though I may be misusing the word.

So, is bridging a matter of changing or shift or adjusting formants or general areas of the voice that have the same "clang"?

Is there research that generally finds certain areas in voices that require tuning changes? Is it independent study or study linked to or underwritten by a singing system? And if the latter, does that validate or invalidate any findings as self-serving. as in begging questions to which one has the answer?

There is validity in thinking of bridging to unite the voice. There is also validity in thinking that it is all one voice.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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2014-12-06 15:20:38

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#2 2014-12-07 01:03:06

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

I cannot remember whether it was Titze, Frissell or Miller where I got my strange idea about passaggio. Whoever it was mentioned conditioning a temporary Wall with the Softpalate and back of tongue Completing the vocal TUBE for the resonance of the passaggio area. Descending OO's starting above the passaggio.
   I cannot remember anything else about it except for a diagram that showed the "Air"path in a C formation towards the back of the skull.
   I do not OWN the book. I was reading a preview of it on Google Books many years ago.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#3 2014-12-07 15:02:40

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

Yeah, in the other thread, which still has more traction than this one, I posted a formula for resonance in a tube that is open at one end, my mental profile of the voice.

Now, to that end, resonance still requires a certain amount of space for a note. But, to kind of agree with Debra Lynn's supposition that you resonate against the hard palate by lifting the soft palate to gain access, you could still be using the smaller arches in the hard palate to "capture" high frequencies, which are shorter wavelengths. The process still works, as long as some space, somewhere, is the right dimensions to allow the heterodyning effect of a wave standing back on itself in phase, creating twice the amplitude of signal (an actual physical physics thing) and volume is a result of amplitude and the dB increae is logarithm and so, therefore, most of the volume of a note comes not from the generation of the note at the folds but from resonance.

I think "bridging" is a finer tuning of resonance, generally, though I could certainly be wrong, have not evidence to back that up. And it doesn't make me a great singer, just a thinking one.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#4 2014-12-08 08:49:34

RowboCaup
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Registered: 2013-07-17
Posts: 70
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Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

MDEW: That was definitely Frisell.

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#5 2014-12-08 15:54:22

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

RowboCaup wrote:

MDEW: That was definitely Frisell.

Thanks. I guess the reason for the passaggo is less important than what you can do about it. Plus the fact that when you are having difficulties and Learn to get past that trouble note you are good for 3 or 4 more notes and that confounded bridge moves or so it seems. Eventually you do not notice any bridge.
  I am not fully there yet. I am one of those that sometimes on that G4 the note will wobble between "Modal/Falsetto" or I can feel and hear a resonance shift between the oral cavity and the Nasal/sinus cavity.
  Other notes I can choose between Modal or Falsetto. G4 will choose for me.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#6 2014-12-09 00:21:51

VIDEOHERE
Administrator
Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 7197
Reputation :   66 

Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

folks, take most beginning singers and ask them to sing as high as they can.  no other instruction, just play a note and ask them to sing it and before long they will get to a place where it gets harder and the choice is either yell to it or the voice ditches to an airy falsetto.

unless you are supremely naturally gifted, you are going to reach a stumbling block.

this to me is very likely......or am i missing something?

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#7 2014-12-09 01:39:33

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: Where is the confounded bridge?

In my opinion, with no peer-reviewed scientific study, just a redneck trying to figure out how to record properly :lol: , what we would call bridges or passagio points are places in the voice where resonance must become more finely tuned, if not already tuned, which it should have been, and a reduction of vibrating mass, with or without less adduction than before.

For that, I rely on my experience with guitar. You will not play D5 with the 6th string (the big fat one.) The string will break or be close to breaking before you get there. The string has too much mass and and cannot vibrate properly at the required frequency. Granted, that is an oversimplification but it serves to illustrate my thinking.

So, even though I defend Martin's right to ask why specific freqs for bridges,  I don't think my theory answers that specific question.

In fact, most of my imagery is probably inaccurate in terms of actual anatomic action but as long as I am getting the volume and tone I can use, I think it's okay. But I am not a technical singing expert nor do I have to convince anyone that I am. If I can just sing a song on key and record it right,  I consider that an achievement.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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