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#1 2014-11-12 01:15:15

VIDEOHERE
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Registered: 2008-12-22
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great vid on a true "ah" vowel

just a great video....really something to learn (or re-learn) or remind yourself of....i love these kind of videos

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2014-11-12 01:15:15

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#2 2014-11-12 21:36:15

FelipeCarvalho
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From: Brasil
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Bob, not that I disagree with the idea, but the "pure" AH she did twice on the start of the video is more of an OH than AH.

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#3 2014-11-12 21:57:41

RowboCaup
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

To sing a "Pure Ah", you need to find good flow phonation, the resonance must traverse through and exit the vocal tract without being hindered, and you need to decide what vowel "Ah" is. I like to go with Bright A from the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet).

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#4 2014-11-13 00:01:26

Khassera
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From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2013-08-02
Posts: 347
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

I think Ah is very intuitive.


"'Means are many' said the hag as she wiped the table with a cat."

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#5 2014-11-13 00:49:31

Danielformica
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From: San Luis Obispo
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 1552
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Not so great vid on "ah":)


DANIEL
WWW.YOURVOCALTEACHER.COM
WWW.DANIELFORMICAVOCALSTUDIO.COM
www.soundcloud.com/daniel-formica

Disclaimer-Anything I write or try to help people with on here are techniques and things that have worked for ME.  They are not necessarily" right" or "wrong" but have worked for ME and my 20+ yrs as a professional working
singer.
Thank you

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#6 2014-11-13 01:50:21

FelipeCarvalho
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

The idea of using the Italian accent is good though... Still, this thing of "pure" vowels is nonsense.

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#7 2014-11-13 02:33:33

Clint Torres
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From: Where the sun don't shine
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 83
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Who cares, I think she's hot!!  http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/id-hit-it-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif

Last edited by Clint Torres (2014-11-14 20:09:07)

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#8 2014-11-13 16:50:42

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Phil Moufarrege wrote:

Danielformica wrote:

Not so great vid on "ah":)

lol you and bob are like a husband and wife...sort it out lmao

Like the Honeymooners?

"One of these days, Alice, one of these days ..." (Bob will remember, for sure.)


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#9 2014-11-13 21:39:40

Validar
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From: Orlando, Florida.
Registered: 2011-01-13
Posts: 476
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

"To the moon, Alice!"  :lol:


I've never been skydiving, but I've zoomed in on Google Earth really, really fast.

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#10 2014-11-15 00:04:45

VIDEOHERE
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Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 7197
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

it's cool to disagree as long as we respect each other like ralphie boy respected alice for knowing better .....lol!!!!!

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#11 2014-11-15 03:09:07

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Pretty basic.  However... She is not singing the Italian /a/.   I agree with Felipe, too... No such thing as a 'pure' vowel...

Have fun!


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#12 2014-11-15 17:03:51

VIDEOHERE
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

felipe, can you favor us with a sample of an italian "ah?"

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#13 2014-11-15 23:51:37

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Felipe is not italian, he is brasilian. Portugeuse and it's pronunciation is different than the italian language and its pronunciation.

But I don't know nuttin'.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#14 2014-11-16 00:29:09

David_kylie
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Registered: 2014-10-11
Posts: 55
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

ronws wrote:

Felipe is not italian, he is brasilian. Portugeuse and it's pronunciation is different than the italian language and its pronunciation.

But I don't know nuttin'.

They are all latin derrived languages so similarities are there...chances is he will be closest to recreating that particular accentuation...also im Croatian (100km away from italy) and i can speak some italian with preety decent accent and im quite sure filipe will have the easiest time matching it

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#15 2014-11-18 00:07:09

VIDEOHERE
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Registered: 2008-12-22
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

do you have to be italian to sing an italian "ah?"

anyone steven, martin, daniel, phil, can we hear one?

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#16 2014-11-18 03:16:13

Clint Torres
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From: Where the sun don't shine
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 83
Reputation :   

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

David_kylie wrote:

ronws wrote:

Felipe is not italian, he is brasilian. Portugeuse and it's pronunciation is different than the italian language and its pronunciation.

But I don't know nuttin'.

They are all latin derrived languages so similarities are there...chances is he will be closest to recreating that particular accentuation...also im Croatian (100km away from italy) and i can speak some italian with preety decent accent and im quite sure filipe will have the easiest time matching it

VIDEOHERE wrote:

do you have to be italian to sing an italian "ah?"

anyone steven, martin, daniel, phil, can we hear one?

An "Italian" ah is just a pronunciation or style not something that is attributed to your particular nationality.  It is something you learn no matter where you are from. It's classical style.  If you learn classical music/singing you learn Italian vowels.  I would imagine Felipe was asked to demonstrate possibly because he may have had classical training? Not because of where he is from.  I don't know but that is how I interpreted Videohere's question.

It's more a matter of the difference between American "A,E,I,O U  (Ay, EEY IEY OH OO) and the Italian vowels.  For example The American U sounds like Yeeoo while the Italian sounds more like uu.  The pure (Italian) vowels are rounder.  EE, Eh, Ah, Oh UU.

Last edited by Clint Torres (2014-11-18 03:40:30)

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#17 2014-11-18 10:36:16

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

I was going to delete my post but some of you have used it as quoted in your responses. True, I did not know Bob's motivations in asking Felipe for a sample of italian ah and I was expressing my thought exactly because of Felipe's nationality and language, regardless of his predilection for sounding classical and speaking in some kind of classical terms.

I have worked with guys from several countries that speak a form of spanish or a latin-based language. Costa Rica, Mexico, Honduras, El Savador. All those guys spoke spanish similar enough to the mexican spanish that I know that I could understand them, but the "accent" was different, which suprised them. Most white americans cannot hear that but I can, plain as day.

So, I was assuming that just because Felipe speaks some kind of spanish doesn't mean he might have the right ah but I suppose it could be something he learned in his lessons and I apologize for misunderstanding and causing more of a derailing of this thread because I do think there is something to specific vowel shapes but other experts have said that there are no true vowels, which makes me wonder what kind of standard we are singing to.

I suppose I could say that ah has done good things for me but that is just a personal statement, nothing of expertise on my part, obviously.

So, agreed, brethren. Let's hear Felipe's ah sound.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#18 2014-11-18 10:51:59

FelipeCarvalho
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Bob it is not possible to talk of one "ultimate" form to use the vowels. Ah on a registration for chest:

https://app.box.com/s/cr9uc9iv5x0utqmb8lyv

On a more "heady" placement:

https://app.box.com/s/own17uasc5j8cbup8ypm

Now it begins more like Oh and ends towards Uh.

That's why I think we have to take care when talking about a "pure" vowel.

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#19 2014-11-18 13:21:56

FelipeCarvalho
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Oh about the "italian" vowels, what matters more on them is the accent, it's the way they articulate and even modify those vowels naturally. The italian Ah IS a bit towards Oh, the italian EE is a quite a bit towards EH (and french Ü).

My english vowels are probably more precise than my italian, I don't know italian, I just use the accent for training purposes.

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#20 2014-11-18 17:12:06

MDEW
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Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
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Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

A little hillbilly interpretation.....Vowels are mainly Tongue shape and position. It has been pointed out to me that my AH is closer to AA as in Cat... The back of my tongue is HIGH and lifts closer to the soft palate than the hard palate. The italian ah has tongue postion that lays flat on the floor of the mouth and does not lift as much, the tongue may even be a bit curved in the back, the middle of the tongue dips a little.
   This does not mean concentrate on the tongue, only pointing out what the difference is physically. It is the sound you intend to create that will shape the tongue. Utimately it is the shape and position of the togue that leads to those sensations of Placement also.
   Accents are usually created by peculiar placements of the tongue. Imitate different accents and pay attention to what your tongue is doing that is different and you will see what I mean.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#21 2014-11-18 23:50:38

VIDEOHERE
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Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 7197
Reputation :   66 

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

i chose felipe at random because i thought he had a classical background?

nothing to do with nationality.

to me felipe's "ah" was more american-ish than italian-ish...(made up words lol!!!)  when you get this 'ah" right (right for your voice) everything just seems to slot in.

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#22 2014-11-19 16:13:09

FelipeCarvalho
TMV Forum Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2011-07-28
Posts: 2889
Reputation :   61 
Website

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Yes probably, that sample was made "lower" on purpose for another subject.

Using the italian accent is good to open your vowels and get the right amount of metal/ring/support you need (usually to get people to start singing a bit louder too):

[youtube]http://youtu.be/VXd4tN7TfN0[/youtube]

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#23 2014-11-19 16:14:29

FelipeCarvalho
TMV Forum Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2011-07-28
Posts: 2889
Reputation :   61 
Website

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

Anyways please no "pure" vowels thing, pretty please :P.

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#24 2014-11-19 21:15:30

VIDEOHERE
Administrator
Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 7197
Reputation :   66 

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

gotta ask....

why is there no such thing as a pure vowel on a given note?

what prevents it's purity? if a vowel is basically a throat shape why can't we call it a pure shape?

center of the mode or whatever....

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#25 2014-11-19 21:26:58

Khassera
TMV Forum Member
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2013-08-02
Posts: 347
Reputation :   

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

There is a "pure" or a "real" note, right? I mean a C# can be defined, right? It can be recorded and said "alright, this is C#. It's not C, it's not Cb, it's C#." Could the vibrating frequency of a vowel be analysed the same way? I'd imagine it differs from person to person, so there's no definitive universal guide to what a pure vowel is.. So that's why there shouldn't be a concept of a "pure vowel." The term gives the idea of something that is a standard, fixed and unchanging, while in reality it isn't.


"'Means are many' said the hag as she wiped the table with a cat."

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#26 2014-11-19 22:38:45

Danielformica
TMV Forum Member
From: San Luis Obispo
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 1552
Reputation :   62 
Website

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

just sing.....


DANIEL
WWW.YOURVOCALTEACHER.COM
WWW.DANIELFORMICAVOCALSTUDIO.COM
www.soundcloud.com/daniel-formica

Disclaimer-Anything I write or try to help people with on here are techniques and things that have worked for ME.  They are not necessarily" right" or "wrong" but have worked for ME and my 20+ yrs as a professional working
singer.
Thank you

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#27 2014-11-19 22:54:40

FelipeCarvalho
TMV Forum Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2011-07-28
Posts: 2889
Reputation :   61 
Website

Re: great vid on a true "ah" vowel

VIDEOHERE wrote:

gotta ask....

why is there no such thing as a pure vowel on a given note?

what prevents it's purity? if a vowel is basically a throat shape why can't we call it a pure shape?

center of the mode or whatever....

Because it would sound poor, singing from bottom to up on OH for example... Don´t you think so?

NOOHHHHSOOHHMM DOORRHMOHHHH

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