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#1 2014-01-17 16:03:22

crowley007
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Registered: 2014-01-17
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Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Hi Guys,I wonder if I can ask you a question .

These therapeutic doses of oxandrolone (10 -15 mg per day ).

I am an endomorph type(1) ,practice singing rock/metal style and ballads journey type for 5 years and I practice ashtanga yoga for 1 year . Before practicing weightlifting but stopped because the tension in the neck and shoulders was unbearable for me and my character was horrible. This was the reason I went to ashtanga .

Ashtanga is currently the only exercise that I practice. I do not do cardio or Hit Non raise cortisol. The same with regard to the weights.
If you currently do cardio, weights or hit my character is very neurotic and unfriendly. Ashtanga , to that effect keeps me focused .

I breakfast every day 3 boiled eggs with integral bread and some olive oil. No oats for oatmeal as cortisol rises .No sugar.Not like junk food or fast food. I use a low-protein diet in order to avoid neoglucogenesis, thus not stress my body (maximum 0.8 grams per kilo of weight).
My fat consumption is moderate, if indeed they had been saturated are just high-quality saturated fats such as coconut oil or clarified butter.

I feel agile, with a positive attitude .

My idea is to use oxandrolone with a therapeutic dose (maximum 10 mg per day for two weeks, and two weeks rest and so on ) to help the distribution of effective nutrients, lower cortisol and everything to lose abdominal fat without increasing my cortisol levels ( if my cortisol levels are high automatically lose my voice because I am very stressed ) .

My question for you is oxandrolone doses described in these could affect my voice? I have a vocal tenor I keep like a relic.

I am a responsible person I hope can help me .

Thanks in advance! ( and sorry for my english!)

Notes:

(1) endomorph means that you tend to have a lot of body fat due to genetics and I have high cortisol(stress) levels
(2) I never alcohol use or any kind of drug or similar.
I have a very healthy life.
(3)I once tried to use megadoses of fish oil in the style of Charles Poliquin to maximize fat loss and was fatal to my voice, I felt very stressed. It was an experience I do not want to repeat.

Last edited by crowley007 (2014-01-17 16:06:59)

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2014-01-17 16:03:22

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#2 2014-01-18 16:07:24

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

I don't know if I can help but I would like to respond. For I have broken every rule of singing there is. Drinking, smoking, eating the wrong foods. And what I have found is that these are lifestyle choices.

But what truly messed up my voice is how I use my voice. And you might take the example of Henry Rollins, singer for Black Flag and later, the Henry Rollins Group. He started out with hardcore rock, which was a hard style, practioners often looking on punk rockers as ninnies.

Henry has always been an example of healthy eating habits. Non-smoker, no drugs, his favorite drink is coffee, hot, strong, and black. Happiness is a straight shot of espresso, for him. But he could wear his voice out from pushing too hard, especially in a club where he could not hear himself.

Nor was his home life any easier. During all of his time with Black Flag, he literally lived and slept in a tool shed. On tour, he slept in the back of the rental truck they used to cart their equipment.

And he, like I, would advise against a peformance enhancing drug, no matter how "responsible" you are.

There are singers who received steroid shots. And that is because they were overworked on a tour with financial obligations and could not afford to take time off, as they should have. And there is the risk of further damage. Even if you take the drug responsibly, it is in response to discomfort from damage. And the long-term effects of steroids are not desirable.

I get it, you are a big guy and you want to be fit and trim as possible. So, continue with the good food thing and the low impact exercise.

Some years ago, I was at a New Year's Eve party and sang for about 2 hours, give or take. There was smoking around and drinking. I had a few beers interspersed with Diet Coke. And I did not push my voice to create a sound that it was not capable of making.

And I know some people will say I was just being lazy, even though my set list included "Highway To Hell," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Black Dog." But calling me lazy glosses over the fact that I sang a wide range for 2 hours without wearing out. And I could still speak and have conversations after midnight, when everyone who had not crashed and burned was now settling down to rest.

And it could just be my personal opinion that using highly controlled substances to lose some fat is not the right thing to do and it will not have lasting effects. What happens when you stop the treatment? Whatever you achieved with it will disappear with it.

Better to affect your metabolism naturally with what you can do. As for being an endomorph, make it work for you.

During the week, I have some pieces of toast when I get up. At work, I have some low fat yogurt and some sugar free jello. During the evening, I may eat meat and vegetables. other times, veggie burgers. Whatever we feel like.

I stay away from fried foods. When I make pasta or chili, I use 99 % lean ground turkey. For salads, usually leafy salads, rather than creamy salads like potato salad. Dessert might be grapes or cherries, right of the stem. I know how tough it can be. I am one of those guys who can gain 5 pounds just by looking at a candy bar. So, quit looking.

I am 6' 6". I have weigh as much as 254, as low as 215. I average 225 to 230. On me, that looks slim. As for exercise, well, my day starts with ibuprofen. Some decades in the construction industry have taken their toll, as well as a family history of arthritis. My job has me up and down all day. One day may not be much. Another day might have me lifting a 100 lb spool of wire.

But, as a singer, what is important to me is how I am singing, not what I look like. Good thing, too. I look like a biker that cleaned up for a court appearance but I sound like a soprano. I like irony. The juxtaposition of my look and sound.

Anne Wilson of Heart has a genetic condition that predisposes her to be big. She can eat the right foods that we all can and her body stores it differently. But her voice is the same as it was 40 years ago. Because her dress size doesn't matter. How she sings, matters. And some will say, but her sister, Nancy, is far more slim. Well, that just proves the genetics thing. Siblings take on traits of different parents. Nancy is built more like their mother and Anne is built more like their father.

And Heart still rocks and Anne is still sexy. Because it really is in the eyes.

Last edited by ronws (2014-01-18 16:08:16)


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#3 2014-01-18 20:48:53

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Dear Ronws, I attached a copy of an email that intecambié with Mr. Namlik.

"Dear Mr.Adolph Namlik,

Is very kind of you to write these lines to my.
I am really grateful for your advice. To me this is very important .
In any case, I'm not fat .My height is 173 cms and my weight is 73 kilos . My fat percentage is 18 %.
I thought as an alternative to oxandrolone , using certain therapeutic herbs like licorice root or ashwaganda to modulate the level of cortisol.I've even thought about going back to consuming 3 grams of vitamin C, as it has done in the past. But the latter (vitamin c) makes me a little nervous as coffee.
Maybe my problem is emotional .Maybe my problem is not physical.
Finally, if you think insistent forgive my anxiety , but about oxandrolone , I've seen studies that talk about use in children.This makes me think that it is safe . But certainly there is a study that was done with little girls whose voice was very sharp and the results are actually an alteration in the voice of these girls. And it makes sense that this is because oxandrolone has moderate anabolic action ( affecting skeletal muscle) . However it is not androgenic (does not affect secondary sex characteristics , " his manhood " healthy libido , etc).

I hope to be doing the right thing with my ashtanga yoga routine (it's a type of low impact exercise ) .


Any comments you might ask me , I would be very grateful ,

Sincerely,

crowley007

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20971614 ( study related to the voice of girls)

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d1980.long

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20061421

In any case, my thing is not a matter of ego tied to the aesthetics of rock.

I have a couple of years with the percentage of fat but not sure if correct continue. I'm 28 and good stamina. But I want to keep my physique in the most optimal condition.
In the past when lifted weights had an even lower percentage of fat, around 15 - 16%. But the stress generated by the weights and strains of neck and shoulders do not compensate me.

Sincerely,

crowley007

Last edited by crowley007 (2014-01-18 20:50:31)

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#4 2014-01-21 19:10:27

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Hi CunoDante , thanks for commenting.

Right now, I will answer your questions.   I will introduce the topic with a personal reflection to explain my intentions.

I feel that my right vocal performance depends on the state of my mental energy as the state of my physical energy.
Over time, I've noticed that I'm more efficient to run the correct vocal performance if I how the right foods. To me this is important as well get my physical stamina and my mental stamina. I perceive that there is a interrelation between these two classes of stamina , so to speak , so that one depends on the other.
That said my main goal is to lower my body fat percentage without raising cortisol. I would lose a couple of digits. For example, currently, as I said, my body fat percentage is 18 % and I would get 15%. The basis of this is a matter of character wellness related to a direct proportion between fat percentage and emotional problems. Less fat, less emotional problems(1). This is important when running vocal technique consciously, whenever you need to sing.
In any case, physically, if you saw me you would realize that I am a relatively skinny guy with some fat.

Now, I know the way of high cortisol, also called "no pain no gain", which is looking to lower body fat percentage. But this path is not satisfactory to me.
For a long time I was the rude guy of the gym and I was a great reader of nutrition and bodybuilding forums for many years (at least 5 years). I know close most theories. Theories that follow the line of the “no pain no gain “. I also have a cousin who works as a nutritionist and I delivers its service for free. I have always advised by “real people” not just forums. However, forums can help improve your critical sense.


I can now see that with my ashtanga yoga routine (and occasionally swim at the beach a while for pleasure) I get almost the same benefits from my old hard weight training. Perhaps my fat percentage is slightly higher (now 18%,   in the past 15% -16%), but, however, with this new way of life, my spirit feels healthy and free.

My idea about oxandrolone, a dose is not more than 10 mg for two weeks. Then take a week and do two weeks. And just this year.
It would simply be a metabolic support for my basal metabolism.But if you use this drug prevented me hit a FA#5,   I prefer not to wear anything and be content with what I have.
Anyway ashtanga slowly decreases fat ( and by the way), I REALLY love my voice!!)
As to your specific questions

1) The logic was to weightlifting was a full body routine to generate lactic acid and thus lose the most fat . These routines are full body, mostly multi-joint exercises and take your business name is " 5x5 routine ."

I adapted this type of routine to my ability and time.

I was doing chin ups, 30 repetitions in 15 or 20 minutes, some military press
and , of course , squats (favorite lovers high cortisol).
Regarding the weights raised : in chin ups, you occupy the body weight ( weight 73). In the military press 10 kilos occupied by dumbbell and repetitions were 25.
Regarding squats weight was more than 20 kilos and put a board under your calves to isolate the quadriceps and the gluteus and emphasize the quadriceps. 30 repetitions with one dumbbell made grasped by both hands. It was kind of dead weight mixed with squat.
Immediately after my 30 minutes of weights in total, went jogging intensely about 30 minutes.
In any case it is not surprising that exercise is effective in burning fat creates inflammation.

2) If you mean laboratory tests, the answer is no, but clearly my changes of similar character to a 15 year old girl, not just because they have low cortisol control.

(I know what you're thinking, but I would ask you to keep this formal speech issues examinations and the like).

A note worth mentioning here is that oxandrolone increases growth hormone and decreases cortisol.
The elevation of growth hormone from the point of view wellness brings good feelings, joy, etc..
Exogenous testosterone, meanwhile, if you think that my levels you are low, lowers cortisol and just as the name implies boosts testosterone, but according to the point of wellness view brings opposed to the lighter feeling, agitation not desired, etc.( suggest you check the perspective of wellness clinics).

3) Since I answered above. I would add that I am guided by the official perspective and the alternative perspective. I eat bach flowers for example. And I like some tips related to Charles Poliquin eggs and vitamins. And still the official perspective, I try to eat whole grains and avoid refined sugar.

4) No digestion problem. I have a "gut bomb proof."

5) The other alternatives are precisely those related to yoga and meditation. Every morning upon awakening I meditate a few minutes and I think I helped a little with my relaxation.

Great, I ask.You mean the first  link or the second link?
1 ) http://www.ncvs.org/index.html
2) https://wiki.uiowa.edu/display/protocol … ice+Clinic

Thanks in advance ( and sorry for my english)

Notes
(1)    The foundation of this relationship is that there are physical phenomena that have psychological correlates.
This is the case, for example, to have the hormonal profile of high estrogen, which can be understood psychologically as the" difficulty of serenity in your tough decisions", in a business,, to fight someone or to solve a problem,etc.
Antiestrogens regard as natural green tea, flaxseed, vitamin d, etc,can be very useful.

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#5 2014-01-22 00:01:28

crowley007
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Registered: 2014-01-17
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Hi Dante, thank you very much for posting again.

Really for me the only benefit of being a tough guy gym was that I knew the game. Currently no longer anything.

Life lately has me like new every day. I thought it might have something to untreated depression. Well in any case the music comforts me all this.

I think you have understood my message correctly.
Shorter workouts? It really does not matter the length, weight lifting stresses me. And what's worse because I desire to lift more weight. It's like a race against myself. Probably not a career that I want to run.
Diet. Not like over 2000 calories.Happens naturally , not deliberately. Regarding the amount of saturated fats, I moderated the matter. Occupy only a small amount (maximum 10 grams) to fry my eggs occasionally ( Poliquin style) or to add to my vegetables or  bread,etc.

Regarding pranayama, I know, I've practiced many veces.He had abundant experience with pranayama.
But the psychological feeling I get is that of losing my manhood.
I feel my ego dissolve into a thousand pieces.
Perhaps it is the heritage of latin america. This is a pretty sexist and authoritarian place, but not patriarchal traditions but matriarchal traditions. What makes the matter in a difficult paradox to resolve.
Sorry, it's really hard for me to leave my ego and see the world in a more subtle way. Your words make me think I'm a really egocentric guy.

I have practiced pranayama this site
http://grimmly2007.blogspot.com/2013/11 … ieles.html

As to the other suggestions, I want to tell you I'm not a "new age". In fact the theme of Chinese ayurveda doctor or physician, I see it with suspicion because I do not like your approach filósofico.Me mean the underlying philosophy related issues as "Bindu", "Kundalini", etcetc.
Again my paranoia derived from my egocentric approach. I can not help.

If there is a philosophy that I like is Charles Poliquin (the irony is that Poliquin is Chinese doctor), but I do not like nor his distaste for carbohydrates or sexist stance. I like not having dual approach these issues. Although as I will comment is sexist and that too dislike.
I also like Alan Aragon. I would say I like the permissiveness of Aragon with the Poliquin´s emphasis on manhood.
My specific location is chile, south america.
Thanks for reading!
PD:by the way, I absolutely heterosexual

Last edited by crowley007 (2014-01-22 00:02:35)

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#6 2014-01-22 03:26:37

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Hi Dante, really you are very kind to re-post.

By reading your comments, I can not help but feel some sadness and feel that I am on the wrong path regarding oxandrolone.

Actually, when I lifted weights, knew the game and I was happy in my little hole.

All this makes me think I'm living my "darkest hour" as the Megadeth guys say .

Regarding my post implementation of pranayama feeling, I can tell that is basically without mental stress but I feel stress or sexual libido contained. Forgive me for the gesture of confidence to discuss these things, but it really is the truth.

Sometimes I think I should go back to take my vitamins and minerals following the principles of Poliquin. I have in my closet vitamin d3 5000 iu, magnesium, zinc gluconate, vitamin b6, b12, b1. Stop eating wheat. I have good food, eggs, brown rice, whole oats. And train like a man. I think the whole damn thing singing led me to my ruin. You know? I do not feel as sexual as before. Maybe my hormonal profiles have declined. And what's worse, I feel like ashtanga contributes in this contention my libido, perhaps ashtanga makes me process the cortisol in a way different from the weights, it is as if I forced to process the cortisol within me, but the good news is I feel closer to my emotions
(Both good emotions and the bad emotions).

Regarding ayurveda and yoga, in relation to "Kundalini", "Bindu" etc.. I have a sexual problem related to this issue or perhaps a problem of ego (the ironic part is that I try to be as humble in my daily life and so far as my learning vocal technique with my singing teacher).


The point is that kundalini, ayurveda, bindu, represent for my moral duties which are in some way related to prohibitions lust. For this reason I like Poliquin when talking about the naughty nutritionist and said concerning lust that generates good quality food, so to speak.
I feel that yoga and ayurveda are against lust making quality (in terms of the logic of Poliquin or at least from the point of view of how these issues focuses Poliquin).
Let's say that lately I am unclear what is real. And what's worse I'm not clear if my song is an escape from one of two perspectives (perpendicular one-kundalini ayurveda perspective two Poliquin).
Maybe again, I just need to train like a man. I have my muscles in perfect condition. I have not lost my strength.
I hope I have given a speech too long or too pathetic.
Thanks for reading!
Sincerely,
crowley007
PS: I live in chile, chile is a country in south america.

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#7 2014-01-22 03:30:56

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

PS2: Certainly the issue linking oxandrolone with my descriptions of my sexual perceptions that oxandrolone is basically generates improvements in cortisol therefore hormone for testosterone (as a matter of balancing hormonal profiles profiles, not me mean psychological myths associated with testosterone).

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#8 2014-01-23 00:03:17

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Dante, thanks for your tips.

I knew there was something I did not explain properly.

The breathing technique generates stress me a sexual character. What I perceive is that I lose my "Mojo" as Austin powers say.
However, my rational mind is stress free.
Perhaps the key issue is that my good emotions I associate with my "Mojo".

Do you get the point?

I repeat, I am very grateful for your advice.

After that I do not think I'll really oxandrolone because first I have to solve my problems. Also some cardio will not kill me.

Thanks again!

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#9 2014-01-23 00:04:36

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

PS: breathing technique = pranayama noted above

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#10 2014-01-25 16:30:41

ronws
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

At the risk of not contributing anything valuable, maybe just my different perspective is enough to know that other perspectives exist.

I only practiced a few moves of yoga, mainly hatha yoga. I was more into martial arts. Kenpo Karate, Kung Fu (northern shaolin,) Tai Chi (short form,) Jeet Kune Do, Tae Kwon Do, Bushido, Aiki-jujutsu. And then pure killing arts as learned from a friend who was a US Navy SEAL. In the last bit, all the basics come together with the viewpoint of a warrior. That is, do unto others and then get away. Average time of real combat, 3 - 5 seconds. Any longer and you run the risk of getting injured. Kill first, kill fast, repeat as necessary.

And I practiced it not to maintain a physical look or shape but to be deadly with my hands and feet. Definitely not tournament martial arts. The goal is to be the one still breathing who walks away from the confrontation. A different mindset, if you will.

Like I have said, my weight has varied greatly. I am slimmer than when I got married to my second wife. My wedding band is constantly sliding on my finger and I should have it re-sized, I just never think to do so.

But none of this is to make my singing better. So, I realized that I probably have an advantage over you and I may not be of help. My mother said it best. I have no shame. I will do whatever it is that I do "in front of God and everyone." And, again, having this dichotomy between how I look and how I sound. Imagine someone who looks like a taller, slimmer version of Hulk Hogan and can warm up with "Ave, Maria."

So, my looks are NOT tied to how I sound and therefore, maybe I am not helping you as much. Plus the whole lack of shame thing I have.

But I have often said that singing is mental and this is part of it. You wish to define a link between stress over how you look with how you sing. And yes, mentally, you can hinder yourself performance-wise if the stress over how you look is deciding how confident you are when singing.

And that with steroid treatment, you hope to regulate your metabolism to get your body to appear the way that you want it to, in order to gain more confidence in your appearance and to grant more confidence in your singing.

I am not perfect, I don't think I know everything, I don't think I am the greatest singer. I may not even be a good human being and many is the time that I have stated, rhetorically, humorously, and even emotionally, I am on the highway to Hell. But it doesn't make me a bad singer. It doesn't make me less of a singer than I already am.

In this thread, I have not seen any mention of you NOT being able to sing a certain note, other than to make sure that whatever meds you do take do not inhibit physically the ability to create a certain note.

And you mentioned somewhat the culture you are in and yes, that can have an effect. I am certainly not discounting that. I even examine myself for my influences and experiences and see how they inform what I do. And so, the culture, your self-image, these are all mental perspectives. And you can change that. And it doesn't take steroid treatment. To quote fellow member Jens, you can do unbelievable things if you want to strongly enough and for long enough. Though my caveat is that there are some structural limits that you must use to your benefit, rather than detriment.

And you may certainly disagree or at least dismiss what I have written. But I would also question what your doctor, if you have one, would say about using steroid treatment for weight or clothing size management. From what I have known with experience with doctors I have had, steroids are meant as a temporary procedure, even for ongoing or chronic health conditions. They are a band aid until a non-steroidal solution can be implemented.

And any advice I could give is totally amateur and above my paygrade. This is really a question for a medical doctor. All I can do, as a singer, is tell you to sing well regardless of what size of clothes you are wearing. But getting you to see that is easier said than done.

You mentioned the possibility of depression and similar self-image problems if only to dismiss them and center your problems totally on your weight. Have you tried remedies for depression, for which you should also see a doctor?

And again, we have nothing by which to judge your singing so that we could even say that your singing sounds fine and your worries are all yours, alone.

But I wish you luck and I hope you find a good doctor.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#11 2014-01-25 17:53:51

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

No problem Ronws , every comments are welcome.

 I disagree on the relationship established between physical fitness and the relative quality of the singing technique used.
For you work in a way , for me otherwise . I do not know if you are a singer or Belting makes his style of music, etcetc . But IMHO the belting requires a minimum of physical endurance.

I repeat again and ask you to try to avoid speculation about the causes that inspire me to make a decrease in my body fat percentage .
 You have a theory that assumes a lot of data that I have not mentioned.
My reality is different and I have mentioned above.
You have your story , I have my story.

I established a relationship between body fat and emotional problems. This relationship is true in my case.
Again this may not be true for you.
Again your reality may be different.

I never mentioned that I could reduce my fat make me sing better .

There are some issues of your grammar and rhetoric do not understand .

In any case, what I was looking at the drug called oxandrolone was a little help for my metabolism.
This logic is related to  "wellness´s logic" .
For this reason I spoke of therapeutic doses . These doses will not grow muscles .They can simply help prevent adrenal stress for example.
 All this is very, very far from the logic of bodybuilders .
Again , try not to speculate about these matters.

The idea of the doctor can be a great idea.

Finally, I have to thank you for writing these lines for me, you're very kind ( and sorry for my english).

Greetings .

Last edited by crowley007 (2014-01-25 17:59:52)

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#12 2014-01-29 00:55:48

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Well, Crowley, I am a singer. And by your latest response, I think I don't have a clue what you problem is and any further speculation on my part would, indeed, be foolish.

I am certainly not a medical doctor nor am I qualified to even speak on the topic.

It's just that this is a forum of singers. And so, I gave my opinion as a singer, though my occupation is that of electrician and these days, operations manager for an electrical sub-contractor. I can fix your lights if you are having a problem.  :lol:

And, of late, I am the only to continue to respond in this thread.

So, good luck and may you find whatever it is you are looking for.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#13 2014-01-29 03:21:00

crowley007
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Re: Therapeutic dose of mild steroid for endomorph singer

Jajaja, Thanks Ronws,thanks for your patience and interest!

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