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#26 2013-06-28 17:47:23

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

folks, can we get back on track here?

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#27 2013-06-28 17:49:40

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

how about you're now able to sing songs you couldn't have touched before.....
your range?
your tone has more chiaro scrurro, more ring?
you have a seemless voice?

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#28 2013-06-28 18:10:40

MDEW
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I seem to be able to keep a better connection during sirens. The change is consistant throughout the range. Meaning there is no audible break. But there is a big difference in tone characteristics between a low note and a note above G4. Sounds as if coming from 2 different people instead of same voice.
    But still it is progress.


"Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars"   Rest in peace Casey.

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#29 2013-06-28 18:14:28

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I was working on "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" yesterday. Never thought I'd be able to do the Plant thing, but it felt and sounded pretty good to me. Learning to overlay distort in the head voice is a very valuable skill for the rock stuff.

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#30 2013-06-28 18:58:06

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

babe i'm gonna leave you is a challenging vocal for sure....great owen......i know guys that couldn't even make it to the end of that tune....

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#31 2013-06-28 20:02:07

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I actually didn't find it super challenging. If you are keep the high parts in a powerful head voice it works out fine.

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#32 2013-06-28 20:59:40

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

with zep tunes, after a good warmup, you can start to sit up there and it will get easier as the night goes on....

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#33 2013-06-29 00:33:01

ronws
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Owen Korzec wrote:

I actually didn't find it super challenging. If you are keep the high parts in a powerful head voice it works out fine.

That's been one of my secrets for a while. Maybe I was just influenced by the sound at such a young age. I've been listening to them since the 70's. The secret to that song is the low parts are not a bottomed out chest voice, even when he gets creaky. It's a head voice song. Or, at least, that is how I approach it, and most Led Zep songs that I cover.

Just wanted to share my love of Led Zeppelin. The. Greatest. Rock. Band. Ever.

Of course, I also remember "Hush" by Deep Purple when it came out. That was also a blast of fresh air.

It seems like I learn something new about breath management, every single day. And vowels, both the bane and savior of singers.


"Please, allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste." - Mick Jagger

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#34 2013-06-29 00:36:56

jonpall
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I'm better at putting little nuances into songs and just singing songs in the medium register, which is what probably counts the most for singers. Although the occasional high notes inevitably create the biggest drama.

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#35 2013-06-29 17:12:52

Mr Bounce
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Singing gets a little easier and sounds a bit more beautiful every day. Songs which seemed impossible a few months ago are now difficult, and the ones which were difficult are now manageable, and so on.

Owen Korzec wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:

...
For me, I keep bouncing around between focussing on different parts of singing and realising that they're all interconnected (support, phonation, resonance, twang, etc) Some methods focus on only one exclusively but the truth is they're all important ... At least that is my truth ...

Yes you have found the truth.

I find it ridiculous when a method tries to teach it all through resonance all through laryngeal coordination or all through breathing. It's as if the teacher doesn't even understand the fundamental concept of singing being all about balancing those three.

Yes. All roads lead to Rome as they say. Sometimes when someone discovers how to do something they couldn't do before, they think that their way is the ultimate holy grail and start to teach/proclaim/market it as such. The reality is that they found it on their own terms. Of course I'm not talking just about singing... Religion, politics and sex, the usual suspects, etc ;)

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#36 2013-06-29 18:08:42

Sun
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Well been working hard form the ground up, I always sung with constrictions before without knowing it, and I mean always from day 1.

I've learned to do it right but I started from ground up, meaning A3 ish, been practising very hard and patiently and producing voice in a way I never have before, even if I haven't gotten very far yet, I've gained something more valuable; the self discipline and patience to just be consistent with fundamentals and let it take however long it takes.

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#37 2013-06-29 21:09:13

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

sun, this is one "sport" that really cannot be rushed..

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#38 2013-06-29 21:37:32

ronws
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Continuing a thought from the thread on Daniel's support video.

I don't think of support as a gut-wrenching experience, even if, at times, much control is exerted. As well it may be on certain parts of certain songs in certain styles.

I mentioned before in this thread that I seem to learn something new about breath support and vowels nearly every day.

I don't know if it's a "gain," like someone adding one more solid and secure note to his range. In fact, most of my gains are not about increasing range but are about solidifying and having better dynamics over the range that I do have. Most of my gains are mental, which are geared toward ease of singing. In fact, having done some low songs recently was a bigger leap for me than whether or not I go to C6 every day. I don't go to that every day and it's not important to me. And realizing the extremes of range are not important is, itself, a gain. Because it allows me to work on the pesky middle. Which is not a new thing for me. I think, now, any singer spends his or her life, managing the passaggio. I don't feel where the switch is, though I know, technically, for my type of voice, it is E4 or F4, by definition of others.

But I don't dread it, I don't see it as a wall to surmount. And I don't notice when I pass it. In fact, the only switch I think I notice is in surpassing C5. And I don't worry about that too much, either.

But every day, my voice is new to me. And what helps me is the acceptance that I am never "finished." None of us are "finished." In fact, if you (in general) are waiting to be "finished" to be labeled a singer, you will never be a singer.

Look at other musicians. Guitarists don't wait until year #3, for example, to claim they are guitar players. They are guitar players from day one, regardless of quality. So, singers, please think of yourselves the same way. Believe that you are a singer and start actiing like one, regardless of your level of competency.

I am a singer that can use some improvement. And so are you, and you, and most especially, you. :D

Ya'll can figure out who "you" is or may be. Sure, it's a rhetorical trick, but hey, I have my moments.

Times before, when I have repeated the quote from a famous opera singer, "when I sing, I feel as if I have no throat, at all," I sometimes think others may think I mean it as it's okay to be lazy. Quite the contrary.

What that phrase means to me, and this is more recent realization, is that if the whole body is engaged, then the throat is free to operate. As soprano Lois Alba said, let the larynx guide the rest of your body. Reaching a state where the larynx is not over-burdened is to engage the other parts of your mechanism, breath support and resonance, to do their part.

And so, sometimes, my gains are re-visiting older realizations, anew. Such as, concentrate on the beauty of tone, rather than maximum volume, of which I already have plenty.

But I am afraid I don't have anything as specific as reaching a certain note to report. I've wanted to participate in this thread but I had no huge milestones, just the continuing ramblings I am famous for.

Last edited by ronws (2013-06-29 21:39:09)


"Please, allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste." - Mick Jagger

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#39 2013-06-30 04:44:54

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Today I noticed I'm getting more comfortable and consistent distorting in mid-high chest voice. It seems like the more I practice it, the more resistance my voice builds to tolerate it for longer periods of time.

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#40 2013-07-01 22:34:32

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

owen, i wouldn't be going near distortion technique yet. focus on building a strong flexible foundation first, no?

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#41 2013-07-01 23:32:33

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

VIDEOHERE wrote:

owen, i wouldn't be going near distortion technique yet. focus on building a strong flexible foundation first, no?

Well I have. With the exception of bridging i've got the basics down...

By the way by mid-high chest voice I mean like, D4-E4 ish...I am indeed not ready to healthily distort much higher than that in chest voice. But those notes have been in my reliable comfortable performance range for a long time.

I think once there are no more remaining fundamental problems at a particular vowel/pitch/intensity and you can sing it clean comfortably and consistently, one is in the clear to start adding vocal effects at that vowel/pitch/intensity, including distortion.

IMO you don't need to be a master at bridging registers or anything like that to learn distortion in a specific way in a specific part of your range, that is working comfortably.

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#42 2013-07-02 02:52:55

Keith
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I have a gain, I have a gain! I have learned not to belt every word I sing! What a difference! I have been singing with crap monitors for so long that I developed a very bad habbit. Now, I have throttled back a bit. Things just seem to fall into place better now. That is all.

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#43 2013-07-11 07:24:53

eggplantbren
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Re: who has any gains to report?

I just got an F#5 in curbing. Learning support got me the range E4-C5, and raising the larynx helped me go higher

Last edited by eggplantbren (2013-07-11 07:25:58)

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#44 2013-07-12 00:01:29

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

congrats egg....the support likely gave you the freedom you need to let the folds flex to the notes and the larynx float to where it needed to be unencumbered by tension.

go and celebrate...!!!

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#45 2013-07-12 00:53:04

eggplantbren
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Yeah that's exactly how it felt Bob. The larynx floated up to where it needed to be. :)

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#46 2013-07-12 03:08:52

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Today I decided to practice really strong...sing some u2 tunes as close to the same weight and intensity as Bono as I could manage...an hour later I found that when I went back to the mesa di voce exercise Steve Fraser assigned me, I could do it much smoother at a higher pitch. I am now even more convinced that working out the chest voice is paramount to full vocal development and even crucial for warming up the voice fully. I've being going up to Ab4 in chest voice just about every day now. Nice to know that ability is now there.

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#47 2013-07-12 04:01:23

eggplantbren
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Sounds great Owen. U2 tunes are hard! I want to be able to sing 'Bad' but that last part ("I'm wide awake") is killer.

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#48 2013-07-12 11:56:30

Owen Korzec
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Re: who has any gains to report?

eggplantbren wrote:

Sounds great Owen. U2 tunes are hard! I want to be able to sing 'Bad' but that last part ("I'm wide awake") is killer.

This is where TVS head voice w/ overlay distortion comes in handy. :cool:

Call it "cheating" or whatever you will, but you get all those high parts with plenty of power, a more acceptable volume in fact, at about a fourth of the effort and fatigue. How is that not a huge win?

Once you remove this psychological fix on trying to sound like the original by never leaving chest voice, the song becomes quite easy actually. I can do a decent acoustic version of it. Also it would never work acoustically if I were to stay in full metallic the whole time, it would drown out the guitar. I'm in head voice by the A4, bridging somewhere around F# or G, that's what works for my voice.

Nevertheless, I'm still working on getting up to A4 in full metallic, something a lot of the other U2 songs demand, and should be totally doable with my voice with a couple months of good training.

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#49 2013-07-12 12:06:23

Manolito Mystiq
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Re: who has any gains to report?

Currently I’m having lessons with two teachers. One is a classical singer—beautiful I might add—who is, after such a long time of having switched teachers, a very, very good teacher. There’s good chemistry and there’s not conflict to what she’s giving and what I feel about it (an earlier Bel Canto teacher swore I should flatten my tongue for a proper projection of sound).

The other teacher is Dave Brooks. For a long time, I’m working with Singing Success, pretty much the only method that I know of that has a pretty good step-by-step approach of a course. It’s definitely the only course I know that you could greatly improve your singing by yourself. I felt it was time to work on the little things that I probably overlooked as a self-studying student. I’ve had three lessons with him and I really grow.


I’m only laughing on the outside
My smile is just skin deep
If you could see inside I’m really crying
You might join me for a weep.

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#50 2013-07-12 18:14:30

VIDEOHERE
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Re: who has any gains to report?

is the beautiful one karyn o'connor?

does dave brooks have you crying with your voice?

owen, ........if you are going to up to ab4 in full voice, you are very likely going into a chesty head voice...you learning to shift resonance...

congrats!!!

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