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#51 2010-05-14 19:28:08

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

i found this on youtube and it really shows his skill at vowel modification and maximization. the magic moment was that piercing high at 2:24 and his blusiness in the beginning. i'll bet he could have made some great blues magic. can't wait for the new cd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSwn3dixNxE

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2010-05-14 19:28:08

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#52 2010-05-21 01:21:06

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

pat monahan (train) belting out some serious led zep.
weaves between "ramble on" and "whole lotta love"

the magic is the ad lib vocals at 5:40 on   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTeW_SIWno0

Last edited by VIDEOHERE (2010-05-21 01:21:44)

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#53 2010-05-21 04:50:10

kalapoka
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

joshual wrote:

Wich one did you order? :D

Richie Kotzen is my God in everything, guitar, singing, composition.... I would give tons of money to someone that can help me reach that kind of tone...
I also have to say that he's 40 years old , started to sing at 14, and play music since he's 5.....

If some guys want to listen to some guitar played by me, i've just created my youtube channel and just post my first video, it's not singing, but this way you can see more what i do for a living. Could be great if you write some comments or a simple "hello" ;)
here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWOMADBoT4

Similar feelings here! For us guitarists who are trying to learn to sing, Richie can probably be the biggest inspiration. what a voice! Is there any way we can learn to sing the way he does? or is this his unique natural born tone? any suggestions?


Ashique M Fahim

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#54 2010-05-21 07:40:38

joshual
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Happy to see i'm not the only one kotzen disciple here ;-). 

I really don't think is a natural born tone, really not, on his first vocal album, his voice was completely different. He's a kind of  a rock version of Sananda Maitreia (Terence Trent D'arby). And doesnt seems strange because, Kotzen always claims his singing idols was Terence Trent D'Arby and Paul Rodgers. And for me his singing is really that combination.

Altough never seems to see someone really helping me with getting that particular rock-soul tone :(. That's too bad...

ps: thanxs for the youtube add

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#55 2010-05-21 17:30:15

kalapoka
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

joshual wrote:

Altough never seems to see someone really helping me with getting that particular rock-soul tone :(. That's too bad...

ps: thanxs for the youtube add

Yah man i really wish there was some way some one could show us how to get that soul tone...:(
you're welcome!

fahim

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#56 2010-05-21 21:25:58

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

kalapoka wrote:

joshual wrote:

Altough never seems to see someone really helping me with getting that particular rock-soul tone :(. That's too bad...

ps: thanxs for the youtube add

Yah man i really wish there was some way some one could show us how to get that soul tone...:(
you're welcome!

fahim

hey guys, i can help. if you really want to get someone's "sound" you really have study them..every note, every inflection, every nook and cranny of their voice and literally "act" them but it takes study and effort. i read that the more vocal styles you can learn and different voices you can do, will only make you more well rounded (without losing your own unique sound).

you, as a singer, you can choose how you wish to sound....heavy, light, pure, raspy, angelic, feminine, the list goes on and on.

cvt, and others can help, but i think the missing ingredient is the emulation, the "acting" part. the commitment to study that voice or genre, honestly assess your capability per that voice, and just go for it!!!

be them!! be richie kotzen, be lou gramm, be chris cornell committ!!!

i know, for me, i will never sound like steve perry and brad delp (they're too light-voiced for me) but i'm well within some songs by guys like paul rodgers, lou gramm, freddie mercury, and jon bonjovi.

one of my main goals these days is to expand full voice and mix so i can try other vocalists who are out of my reach at the present time.

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#57 2010-05-21 23:37:11

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

joshual wrote:

Happy to see i'm not the only one kotzen disciple here ;-). 

I really don't think is a natural born tone, really not, on his first vocal album, his voice was completely different. He's a kind of  a rock version of Sananda Maitreia (Terence Trent D'arby). And doesnt seems strange because, Kotzen always claims his singing idols was Terence Trent D'Arby and Paul Rodgers. And for me his singing is really that combination.

Altough never seems to see someone really helping me with getting that particular rock-soul tone :(. That's too bad...

ps: thanxs for the youtube add

joshual...can you record some clips as a starting point? Maybe find one line or phrase that you want to tackle with his sound(no need to record entire song.) I'll certainly try my best and I'm sure other more qualified guys will get on board. Post it on your Study of Soul Singing thread. http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/the … php?id=705

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#58 2010-05-22 02:01:55

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

analog wrote:

joshual wrote:

Happy to see i'm not the only one kotzen disciple here ;-). 

I really don't think is a natural born tone, really not, on his first vocal album, his voice was completely different. He's a kind of  a rock version of Sananda Maitreia (Terence Trent D'arby). And doesnt seems strange because, Kotzen always claims his singing idols was Terence Trent D'Arby and Paul Rodgers. And for me his singing is really that combination.

Altough never seems to see someone really helping me with getting that particular rock-soul tone :(. That's too bad...

ps: thanxs for the youtube add

joshual...can you record some clips as a starting point? Maybe find one line or phrase that you want to tackle with his sound(no need to record entire song.) I'll certainly try my best and I'm sure other more qualified guys will get on board. Post it on your Study of Soul Singing thread. http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/the … php?id=705

analog, can you help me with the technique he is using to produce the vocals at 3:44?
can you describe it?
what exercises might help?
i'd apprecaite an answer from anyone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gw4HIiydBE

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#59 2010-05-22 02:42:59

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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

catching up on some recent steve winwood (traffic, spencer davis group) still got the pipes!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmoL-qXAr5o

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#60 2010-05-22 09:39:06

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

to many screeching tenors around in this thread, listen to vocal mastery by this swedish baritone. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdap50L3Jtc

the magic is the end run

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#61 2010-05-22 16:11:15

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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jens wrote:

to many screeching tenors around in this thread, listen to vocal mastery by this swedish baritone. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdap50L3Jtc

the magic is the end run

that was beatiful jens. hey, while i got you, can you try to help me out with post #58 above? anybody care to help?

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#62 2010-05-22 18:03:59

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Video,

great one with Little Stevie...it is a TOTAL mind freak watching old footage of him in Spencer Davis. There is no way that voice should come out of that kid.

starting at :41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFaT69CyyKU

analog, can you help me with the technique he is using to produce the vocals at 3:44?
can you describe it?
what exercises might help?

Anyway you can record a snippet of the line, "I want you, I waaaaaant you?"

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#63 2010-05-22 22:38:28

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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

analog wrote:

Video,

great one with Little Stevie...it is a TOTAL mind freak watching old footage of him in Spencer Davis. There is no way that voice should come out of that kid.

starting at :41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFaT69CyyKU

analog, can you help me with the technique he is using to produce the vocals at 3:44?
can you describe it?
what exercises might help?

Anyway you can record a snippet of the line, "I want you, I waaaaaant you?"

thanks analog, the lou gramm? i don't even have the capability...that's what i'm trying to find out....how the hell he gets that awesome sound.

any ideas............any body !!!

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#64 2010-05-22 23:36:31

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Bob,

try forgetting about power and just work on getting the notes at a very very soft volume. I have a feeling you may be driving the breath +over thickening the vocal folds(because you're trying for a huge sound.) You need the folds to thin out big time when you're that high... and you don't need much breath at all. I think if you play around at a very soft volume for a few days, you'll start to get the feeling for it.

I'm assuming of course you can actually reach the notes at soft volume. If you can't...start off sirening on an ng(as in si-ng) at a very low volume up and down your range. If you don't push, you'll be sliding up into the stratosphere in no time. I usually start every day doing sirens on the ng with special attention to "holding back breath" and using as little air as possible to get the sound.

Hope that gives you a start at least.

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#65 2010-05-25 06:50:38

kalapoka
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

magic moments? I'll give you some magic moments...starts from 1:33 till the end...but I think the best magic moment is when she says 'thank you' in the end. :D

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#66 2010-05-25 19:00:55

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

kalapoka wrote:

magic moments? I'll give you some magic moments...starts from 1:33 till the end...but I think the best magic moment is when she says 'thank you' in the end. :D

yep, thanks a lot...!!!! awesome vocal ability

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#67 2010-05-25 19:03:21

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

analog wrote:

Bob,

try forgetting about power and just work on getting the notes at a very very soft volume. I have a feeling you may be driving the breath +over thickening the vocal folds(because you're trying for a huge sound.) You need the folds to thin out big time when you're that high... and you don't need much breath at all. I think if you play around at a very soft volume for a few days, you'll start to get the feeling for it.

I'm assuming of course you can actually reach the notes at soft volume. If you can't...start off sirening on an ng(as in si-ng) at a very low volume up and down your range. If you don't push, you'll be sliding up into the stratosphere in no time. I usually start every day doing sirens on the ng with special attention to "holding back breath" and using as little air as possible to get the sound.

Hope that gives you a start at least.

analog, i apprecaite it..it not the notes i'm concerned with,
it's that raspy rawful full sound he gets on top of it.

any help?

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#68 2010-05-25 21:10:55

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

What analog is trying to say videohere is that he isnt so "full" up on those notes, if your into cvt terminology what he is doing there is twanging MLN and coloring the sound towards curbing. Hence he's adding a hold to the note and driving towards the curbing vowels, probably adding a creaking to the notes.
If you listen to how he sings it .
Ajj Wooooonnt Yoooouuuu
and when he lightens up he ends up in pure MLN/neutral. Analog can correct me if im wrong but i dont hear him being fully in curbing :P

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#69 2010-05-25 23:10:17

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Yeah...sweet jesus Jens has turned into a freakin soprano! He would be the go to on that high scream(I agree 100% w/ his analysis.)

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#70 2010-05-26 16:31:26

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Justin Hawkins was mis-labelled as a "falsetto." He is actually quite adept at mixing falsetto and head voice. In fact, the strat notes in this song can only be accomplished in full head voice, not falsetto. He and the band, The Darkness, were very self-deprecating and fully engaged in campy theatrics. Bring back the clingy jumpsuits ....

"I believe in a thing called love" by the Darkness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#71 2010-05-26 17:46:55

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Ronws i actualy won a karaoke contest with that song :P And everything depends on what you call falsetto and not... Falsetto is just a word, a sound is a sound...  Ive heard almost all registers in the male voice being called "falsetto" and the same with the term "headvoice" usually about highnotes even if being sung in chest...

Justin is using MLN(Metal like neutral) in CVT terms, and up that high it's 99% of the time the mode male singers use when singing so high.

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#72 2010-05-27 15:27:59

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Well, I've known for sometime, even before coming to this forum, that falsetto is a tone or, as I used to call it, a style of singing a note. It is not a range. For example, on the song "Better" by Guns and Roses, Axl starts with falsetto tone. Then he shifts, at the same note to full mixed voice.

And I do imagine that a number of singers maybe using falsetto that is masked by volume and eq on the voice mic channel, whether in studio or live. I have done the reverse, change from mixed voice to falsetto for the effect of softening the tone.

But I am envious. I would like to have been there to hear you do that song.

"Touching me, touching you ..." That guy's voice needed a flight and clearance to take-off. NASA had to move a satellite to get out of the way.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#73 2010-05-27 16:43:37

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

well yes you can describe it that way, then you usually give the word falsetto this characteristics, breathy quality, open folds ect. But for instance in a swedish book  by one of our leading voicescientists(sundberg) he describes that the male falsetto both can have a breathy quality or fold closure(headvoice). Thats basicly my point, one mans "falsetto" is an other mans "fullheadvoice" if you prefer to call it that, it's still the same sound.
There are almost no clear unified terms when it comes to the words falsetto, headvoice, chestvoice... 


I wish you would have been there, seing me doo that song drunk as hell wailing like crazy and dancing like a chicken on the stage :)

Last edited by Jens (2010-05-27 16:48:18)

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#74 2010-05-28 03:28:29

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jens wrote:

What analog is trying to say videohere is that he isnt so "full" up on those notes, if your into cvt terminology what he is doing there is twanging MLN and coloring the sound towards curbing. Hence he's adding a hold to the note and driving towards the curbing vowels, probably adding a creaking to the notes.
If you listen to how he sings it .
Ajj Wooooonnt Yoooouuuu
and when he lightens up he ends up in pure MLN/neutral. Analog can correct me if im wrong but i dont hear him being fully in curbing :P

i've got to buy that cvt book. i need to learn what you guys are talking about. thanks

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#75 2010-05-28 08:21:04

kalapoka
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

VIDEOHERE wrote:

i've got to buy that cvt book. i need to learn what you guys are talking about. thanks

I have the CVT book and I still don't get what it says...:(

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#76 2010-05-28 11:15:00

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Ok il explain further, CVT consists of 4 modes overdrive, edge, curbing and neutral
overdrive and edge is fullmetallic modes

curbing is a halfmetallic mode and neutral is nonmetallic.

when he does that line he is in a metallikeneutral(neutral with twang) but he's leaning on to the curbing vowels oooo and iii and applying a hold but still the sound is not metallic. Thats why he sings it so easy up there.

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#77 2010-05-28 11:31:41

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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

VIDEOHERE: Do you have MSN Messenger? Perhaps some of us could help you with this stuff there? Many of us have either had to learn this or are in the process of learning this, but certainly couldn't do it before, i.e. we weren't born with the ability to do it. I could give some pointers. Jens is great at this. Martin H. also. So is analog. Etc.

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#78 2010-05-28 14:32:52

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jens wrote:

I wish you would have been there, seing me doo that song drunk as hell wailing like crazy and dancing like a chicken on the stage :)

So, you did do it like Justin Hawkins.

And agreed on the shifting of labels. I can sing a note at full volume, overload mic and waveguides and it will sound to someone else like falsetto. I can hit a falsetto with lots of leaky air and it doesn't sound exactly falsetto, at least to me.

Excellent points, of course.

Last edited by ronws (2010-05-28 14:40:12)


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#79 2010-05-28 15:41:05

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Interesting point ronws,

I record snippets on a cheap-ass digital voice recorder...and some of the LOUDEST(FF) sounds come out sounding weak and falsetto-ish. Conversely, some medium(mf) volume notes with loads of twang sound big and brilliant. Could be higher harmonics at work?

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#80 2010-05-28 15:42:10

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Could it be due to clipping?

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#81 2010-05-28 16:10:30

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

jonpall wrote:

VIDEOHERE: Do you have MSN Messenger? Perhaps some of us could help you with this stuff there? Many of us have either had to learn this or are in the process of learning this, but certainly couldn't do it before, i.e. we weren't born with the ability to do it. I could give some pointers. Jens is great at this. Martin H. also. So is analog. Etc.

because of my business, i avoid a lot of the stuff like twitter, and facebook, messenger, but i'd love to have to folks call or email me if you'd like...

bob
videohere@earthlink.net
914-963-8437 (if possible, in the us, not expecting anyone to call from another country)
new york

i came close to fame once not havng a clue "how" to really vocalize.
you have no idea how much everyone's knowledge and help means to me.

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#82 2010-05-28 16:12:24

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jens wrote:

Ok il explain further, CVT consists of 4 modes overdrive, edge, curbing and neutral
overdrive and edge is fullmetallic modes

curbing is a halfmetallic mode and neutral is nonmetallic.

when he does that line he is in a metallikeneutral(neutral with twang) but he's leaning on to the curbing vowels oooo and iii and applying a hold but still the sound is not metallic. Thats why he sings it so easy up there.

jens, if we were in a room with him during the singing of that phrase with no amp. or mic, would he be loud in terms of volume?

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#83 2010-05-28 16:14:37

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jonpall,

Possibly...what specifically happens when it clips?

Last edited by analog (2010-05-28 16:15:40)

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#84 2010-05-28 16:18:20

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

VIDEOHERE wrote:

Jens wrote:

Ok il explain further, CVT consists of 4 modes overdrive, edge, curbing and neutral
overdrive and edge is fullmetallic modes

curbing is a halfmetallic mode and neutral is nonmetallic.

when he does that line he is in a metallikeneutral(neutral with twang) but he's leaning on to the curbing vowels oooo and iii and applying a hold but still the sound is not metallic. Thats why he sings it so easy up there.

jens, if we were in a room with him during the singing of that phrase with no amp. or mic, would he be loud in terms of volume?

Video...absolutely!

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#85 2010-05-28 16:30:02

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

VIDEOHERE wrote:

jens, if we were in a room with him during the singing of that phrase with no amp. or mic, would he be loud in terms of volume?

I'll let Jens answer this as well, but in IMO, he would be pretty loud. However, and this is very important, he's loud because of his twang and not because of his vocal fold thickness or amount of air coming out of his mouth. Therefore, his sound colour is actually lighter than you'd might think (most people don't listen that carefully), as opposed to some drunk guy at a karaoke with a deep tone trying scream this song as hard as he can.

Just to be able to sing a single high note with grit, try this:

Sing the highest note in this song, or maybe slightly lower, in either head voice or falsetto. Choose a vowel you like and is easy to you. Sustain it a few times and make sure it has VERY low volume and it very easily produced. Many people simply choke their larynx on such high notes, so if that happens to you, try inhaling on a yawn and think slightly "dopy".

Now, start to twang that note more and more, with as little strain as humanly possible. With some experimentation, you'll find that it takes a SURPRISINGLY little effort to get very loud with this. Now, you're MUCH louder than in the step before (where you were in falsetto or head voice). But note that you'll sound like a duck or a witch doing this, so don't let that surprise you ... you're SUPPOSED to sound like that!

Now, try adding vibrato to the sound. That often helps you relax a bit and prepare for adding grit.

Finally, without thinking too much exactly HOW you do it, try to change your tone into an "evil" sounding villain or something similar, in order to add rasp. Because of your twang and thin vocal folds, producing grit should now take much less effort than before. When I do it, I keep in mind that since I'm already pretty loud (but with very little effort), I try my best to NOT get any louder when I add grit - otherwise you'll simply increase volume more and more and the grit will only appear when you've thickened up your vocal folds, lost your twang, gotten MUCH louder than before (you'll probably end up in "overdrive" mode way too high = pulling chest) and basically screamed your brains off and hurt your throat.

I suggest you try this as an experiment and let us know how it goes.

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#86 2010-05-28 18:13:03

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

I might also add that it's personally hard for me to produce grit in the high and very high part of my voice if I don't feel the sound resonating fairly hard in my soft palate. It kind of feel the air being driven, very fast, into that spot. If I don't do that, I have to really squeeze, really, really hard to produce grit and that way of doing it starts to hurt pretty fast. And it's mostly the extreme amount of twang that drives the airflow into my soft palate.

Last edited by jonpall (2010-05-28 18:57:46)

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#87 2010-05-28 21:31:36

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

analog wrote:

Interesting point ronws,

I record snippets on a cheap-ass digital voice recorder...and some of the LOUDEST(FF) sounds come out sounding weak and falsetto-ish. Conversely, some medium(mf) volume notes with loads of twang sound big and brilliant. Could be higher harmonics at work?

I think you hit the nail on the head. The mic itself, because of its construction and limitations, does the same thing as an oboe, cancelling out harmonics and when it is overloaded, there might be pitches it can't register at high volume. In regards to your snippets where the loud stuff sounded like falsetto, that is exactly the problem I am having. Once or twice, here, someone thought I was producing a loud falsetto when, as I sang the note, it was anything but falsetto as far as how I feel it.

But then, I have also been second-guessing myself. Perhaps I have accomplished a voluminous falsetto that feels like full head voice to me.

Last edited by ronws (2010-05-28 21:33:03)


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#88 2010-05-29 01:02:16

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

jonpall wrote:

VIDEOHERE wrote:

jens, if we were in a room with him during the singing of that phrase with no amp. or mic, would he be loud in terms of volume?

I'll let Jens answer this as well, but in IMO, he would be pretty loud. However, and this is very important, he's loud because of his twang and not because of his vocal fold thickness or amount of air coming out of his mouth. Therefore, his sound colour is actually lighter than you'd might think (most people don't listen that carefully), as opposed to some drunk guy at a karaoke with a deep tone trying scream this song as hard as he can.

Just to be able to sing a single high note with grit, try this:

Sing the highest note in this song, or maybe slightly lower, in either head voice or falsetto. Choose a vowel you like and is easy to you. Sustain it a few times and make sure it has VERY low volume and it very easily produced. Many people simply choke their larynx on such high notes, so if that happens to you, try inhaling on a yawn and think slightly "dopy".

Now, start to twang that note more and more, with as little strain as humanly possible. With some experimentation, you'll find that it takes a SURPRISINGLY little effort to get very loud with this. Now, you're MUCH louder than in the step before (where you were in falsetto or head voice). But note that you'll sound like a duck or a witch doing this, so don't let that surprise you ... you're SUPPOSED to sound like that!

Now, try adding vibrato to the sound. That often helps you relax a bit and prepare for adding grit.

Finally, without thinking too much exactly HOW you do it, try to change your tone into an "evil" sounding villain or something similar, in order to add rasp. Because of your twang and thin vocal folds, producing grit should now take much less effort than before. When I do it, I keep in mind that since I'm already pretty loud (but with very little effort), I try my best to NOT get any louder when I add grit - otherwise you'll simply increase volume more and more and the grit will only appear when you've thickened up your vocal folds, lost your twang, gotten MUCH louder than before (you'll probably end up in "overdrive" mode way too high = pulling chest) and basically screamed your brains off and hurt your throat.

I suggest you try this as an experiment and let us know how it goes.

thanks for your help...let me try it over here and send a piece over. you're right though, the higher up you go, the harder it becomes.

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#89 2010-05-29 01:04:30

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Videohere, he can or cant be loud as (*auto edit*). It all depends, but one thing for sure is the modes come alotr closer to each other the higher up in the range you go.
MLN is probably one of the best modes for going high in volume when you enter the higher range but a note this is only in the higher ranges, lower down  overdrive/ edge will outperform MLN in terms of volume.  For example jaime vendera was mesured at around 120 db when breaking glass with his voice using MLN.

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#90 2010-05-29 02:23:09

VIDEOHERE
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Jens wrote:

Videohere, he can or cant be loud as (*auto edit*). It all depends, but one thing for sure is the modes come alotr closer to each other the higher up in the range you go.
MLN is probably one of the best modes for going high in volume when you enter the higher range but a note this is only in the higher ranges, lower down  overdrive/ edge will outperform MLN in terms of volume.  For example jaime vendera was mesured at around 120 db when breaking glass with his voice using MLN.

man, this is a bitch...i'm here trying it, i had to drop 1/2 i can falsetto it nice and strong but i'm trying to add the "color" and "rasp" but i hold on to opera or steve perry's sound instead.

do you think it's possible to send me a high note like this (or these) sing it pure falsetto and let me hear you press it into a twang and rasp.....in other words let me hear the transition?
maybe i'm simply not made to sound like that?  know how to twang but twanging this high maybe not possible at this point?

any exercises that assist in that sound production?

any one (if you don't mind)? bob

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#91 2010-05-29 08:48:41

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

I'll try to do it today, VIDEOHERE. But I'm betting that your sound still isn't edge-y or witch-y enough. Have you hear James Lugo imitate the wicket witch of the west? It's kind of like that, this high up in pitch. Be a little bit more playful. I suggest you try to make FUN of Lou Gramm or Axl Rose or Brian Johnson or a witch - that often relaxes people and gets them to produce the correct sound. Also James Lugo's "hee-yah" and related exercises are a good basis for this sound.

It would also help if YOU posted an audio file of yourself trying this and failing, so that people here could possibly say "Ah, this is where your doing just one incorrect thing". I'm positive you can do this. I've heard you sing "Hot blooded" and it was very, very good. But that one didn't have that "witch" sound, which you need for the high note in this song, as opposed to "Hot blooded", in which you DON'T want the witch/edge sound.

Last edited by jonpall (2010-05-29 08:52:52)

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#92 2010-05-29 13:33:05

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Excellent advice, such as make fun of Axl Rose or any performer who is twangy and "edgy". Take their twang and edge to the extreme. That will help find you are able to make the sound. Axl's signature timbre was one of his funny voices. According to Rob Gardner, the original drummer of GnR, as well as Hollywood Rose, Axl sang bass and baritone all the time. One day, he was being kind of snotty and silly and produced this buzzsaw of a sound in the high range that Rob called a wicked cool sounding "falsetto." They asked him to keep that and use it more. And so he did. Whether it is falsetto with lost of nasality or tenor with twang may not matter a lot but the distinctive sound was everything.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#93 2010-05-29 16:21:31

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Ron, those Axl stories are great! Do you know if some of this stuff is available online, either free or to purchase?

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#94 2010-05-29 20:19:23

analog
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Back on topic:
   
Jackie "Mr. Excitement" Wilson

Gotta love the 70's!

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#95 2010-05-30 15:11:25

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

jonpall wrote:

Ron, those Axl stories are great! Do you know if some of this stuff is available online, either free or to purchase?

You can get some of it from wikipedia. Also, I go to a Guns and Roses fan forum and there are a few amateur Axl "historians" there, as well. Sometimes, with links to magazine and paper articles from the late 80's to mid 90's. For example, in an interview, Axl once described himself as being diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. And his problematic relationship with women came from suffering physical, emotional, and sexual abuse as a child at the hands of his birth father (sexual abuse), and physically and emotional abuse from his step-father, who's name he had been forced to adopt as a child. Most of his growing up, he was called by the name of Bill Bailey, just like in the song "Won't you come, Bill Bailey.../" Before he remembered the abuse, though, he had found that his birth father's name was Rose and he legally changed his name to William Rose. Later, he added Axl from the name of a band he had in high school. Later, still, he changed it to W. Axl Rose, to limit his name connection with his birth father.

There are arrest records for him, including a few from Indiana.

There are some decent documentaries on youtube about not only his life but the early formations, such as Hollywood Rose and the first inception of Guns and Roses that he started with Tracii Guns from the band, LA Guns ("The Ballad of Jayne.")

But evidently, according to most of the biographies, he has always been able to sing in several registers and normally preferred to sing bass.

Wikipedia is not always accurate but it's a decent place to start.

If there was a way to send private messages, I would have sent this stuff to you that way, so that I don't derail a thread with what might considered off-topic. Maybe on topic, though, is that Axl seems fond of using different resonances and timbres of distortion in his voice. He can sing like an angel, such as on "This I love" or like a demon on "You Could be Mine." One of Axl's biggest influences in song-writing and style is Sir Elton John. And one of his favorite performers is George Michaels.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#96 2010-05-30 23:31:09

Jens
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Videohere, here's a quick demo on how you can approach those notes, it's not do deep as I was in a rush when i recorded it :P

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/227122 … u_tips.wav

The key is work light, use correct vowels then you after you start experimenting with soundcolor. remember use a twanged setup and dont be afraid to release your voice from there :P

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#97 2010-05-30 23:57:58

ronws
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Also, jonpall, I know what you mean by the soft palate vibration. Yesterday, I did a head voice note that did just that.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#98 2010-06-01 10:04:11

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

ronws, why not create a new thread for those stories on Axl and other singers?

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#99 2010-06-01 10:32:13

jonpall
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

VIDEOHERE, here is me trying the same thing that Jens did, i.e. try to help you produce that kind of sound up there. Note that I haven't mastered this completely yet and I'm certainly no Lou Gramm, but this is my best attempt and these are tips you don't have to pay for :) Of course you'd get more tips if you'd get instructionals like Raise your voice or the CVT book, etc. But hopefully, these clips and Jens' will get you started. And I repeat, it would be helpful for us to hear you attempt this. Note that my grit it slightly less than Jens'. I've spoken with Jens about this and it just seems that having a slightly less grit comes more naturally to me and having slightly more comes more natural to Jens. Jens gritmaestro, correct me if you disagree :)  (He can do slight grit too, actually, lol).

But both of us are kind of "overdosing" the high frequencies, which is done by twanging more and more and increasing the support more and more until grit appears. At the same time, I'm trying to keep my throat as relaxed as I can (it's not possible to keep it completely relaxed, but just use as little effort as you can to produce that sound and no more). I think you should also take care to have some low frequecies in the sound as well so it doesn't sound TOO thin, but mostly it's a controlled increase/overdose of those high frequencies around 3k (twang). And it gets thinner, the higher you go. The highest note in the chorus of "I want you" is an E5, which is very high and pretty thin, actually. I'd also say that grit in the middle and low range doesn't have as much of that twangy, witchy-sound. Here's the clip:

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/227346 … nt_you.mp3

And here I'm messing around with the chorus of "I want you, with grit", just practising it, slowly:

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/227346 … g_slow.mp3

Last edited by jonpall (2010-06-01 10:43:08)

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#100 2010-06-01 12:40:00

Snax
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Re: VIDEO HERE (Bob's) magic moments

Hey Jonpall, your posts are exactly how I ended up finding my Brian Johnson sound! As it turns out I was never able to fully twang due to my huge tonsils but since I've had them and my adenoids removed I can access these type of sounds. Any tips for keeping that sound in the lower notes would be much appreciated. Perhaps it requires a different set up though? I'm able to sing with grit in any range but transitioning from the lower grit into the high falsetto Brian Jonhson grit is giving me trouble.


"GIDDYUP!"

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