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#1 2014-12-11 05:30:03

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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vibrato question on lighter singing

So I did some karaoke with a couple friends and it has brought out a flaw. I dont like karaoke, but i have always used it when i am trying new approaches, kind of like a test n tune before doing serious stuff. So when singing stuff that runs in the higher mix/head(shes gone steelheart example), or songs where there is huge jumps where speed and accuracy is dominant instead of grabbing the note and holding it, whats the deal with vibrato? They picked a bunch of older songs, hair metal songs, and stuff like that.

Like if i grab a note and hold it with a "belt", or full closure and support, vibrato is easy and automatic for the most part. I dont have to think about it being even or anything, i just either choose to let it happen or hold it straight. However, with faster and lighter singing, or staying in the high mix/head area it is not automatic. Feels like I have to force it, feels un natural. I was just not worrying about vibrato much when i was singing except for here and there. For the record i dont like vibrato all the time, I would just like a little better control and access to it singing in this style. I think it is cool icing on the cake at times.

Are there tricks of the trade in contemporary styles that i dont know of? Am i doing something wrong? Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-11 05:30:28)

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2014-12-11 05:30:03

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#2 2014-12-11 05:36:58

Danielformica
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From: San Luis Obispo
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 1552
Reputation :   62 
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Grab and hold with a belt makes me think maybe it's not vibrato you are doing but a wobble or tremolo.  Singing lighter with more head should make the voice have a nice spin in the vibrato. I would have to hear ya


DANIEL
WWW.YOURVOCALTEACHER.COM
WWW.DANIELFORMICAVOCALSTUDIO.COM
www.soundcloud.com/daniel-formica

Disclaimer-Anything I write or try to help people with on here are techniques and things that have worked for ME.  They are not necessarily" right" or "wrong" but have worked for ME and my 20+ yrs as a professional working
singer.
Thank you

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#3 2014-12-11 05:59:15

m.i.r.
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Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

I had an example on another thread i will repost it.
https://app.box.com/s/jhyqm8zvcdzab1spfsx7

You may be right, it may be a little tremelo ish. I have been experimenting with a different way and if feels better and a little wider i dunno. I think i am to the point of needing an actual teachers guidence....*cough cough* lol

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-11 06:02:22)

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#4 2014-12-11 06:44:03

Danielformica
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From: San Luis Obispo
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 1552
Reputation :   62 
Website

Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Yeah it's a little stained and pulled so the vibrato isn't going to natural. But what you have there is good keep it up get some training or figure it out by listening to guys like Stevie wonder. good luck


DANIEL
WWW.YOURVOCALTEACHER.COM
WWW.DANIELFORMICAVOCALSTUDIO.COM
www.soundcloud.com/daniel-formica

Disclaimer-Anything I write or try to help people with on here are techniques and things that have worked for ME.  They are not necessarily" right" or "wrong" but have worked for ME and my 20+ yrs as a professional working
singer.
Thank you

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#5 2014-12-11 07:13:40

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Thanks for the advice, and taking the time to give it sir:)

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#6 2014-12-11 08:49:19

m.i.r.
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Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Well damn.....So what daniel said was stuck in my head. So i made a sine wave that produced a tremelo and a vibrato same frequency both at 440hz....well I be a....I believe I am way more in the tremelo world than actual vibrato...or more bleeting tremelo i would say. Sigh, guess some big changes need to be made, also explains some nagging issues that havent cleared up. Sigh....I love learning something new everyday when it isnt bad ha ha

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-11 09:11:56)

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#7 2014-12-11 17:46:49

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

How does it sound when you sing lighter in the midrange?

Do you get the tremolo, wobble or vibrato?


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#8 2014-12-11 17:58:48

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Tremolo is a shake from strain......Vibrato is a balaced cord closure to breath pressure from natural vibration.

Last edited by MDEW (2014-12-11 18:02:53)


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#9 2014-12-11 18:57:49

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Steven Fraser wrote:

How does it sound when you sing lighter in the midrange?

Do you get the tremolo, wobble or vibrato?

Midrange, moderate or even full levels, there is nice smooth vibrato. Appears the problem is in the middle to upper mix. I would say about e-f4 and up. I think one of the biggest problems is everyone tells you, vibrato is natural when done correctly, it happens automatically. So it may have been my response to produce something that happens on its own, which would make sense if its strain. However, i have a feeling vibrato does not happen own its own pursay. Kind of like hula hooping, yeah a trained person can go on for hours and the body is almost automated in a sense, but the person still is doing something. So maybe its not automatic, maybe it is something that can only be performed or sound right if all the other areas are correct. Of course this is just speculation on my part, as obviously i am doing something wrong.

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-11 19:17:54)

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#10 2014-12-11 21:46:24

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

m.i.r.,

I think about this in a bit different way than you do, perhaps because of the way I was trained as a classical singer, where vibrato is always expected, (even if very subtle) and it's lack is used to infer that the breath/laryngeal muscle coordination has an imbalance or restricting tension.

A very good test of this coordination is in the midrange messa di voce exercise, singing on the softer side of medium loudness.  Some voices which have perfectly lilting vibrato lose it as the diminuendo is performed, or lose it as the crescendo is done.

What I think is happening in these cases is that the person is under or over singing  just a little bit.  Especially, its really challenging for a larger voice to diminish smoothly... The TA/CT/adductor combination has to lessen activity as the breath energy is reduced.  You mention hula-hoop...the large voice is doing that, and spinning the plates on poles, while balancing on one foot, so-to-speak.

I think a similar situation happens when lessening the intensity higher in the range as you describe, and most particularly on the e4 and f4 you mention, key in the transition to the top voice.  Here, it's vital to be singing a really good vowel, and to be maintaining twang, and using 'enough' voice so that the balance will exhibit the vibrato.

To develop consistency of vibrato in any range, and here especially, I Recommend using clean onsets that already have vibrato, with the thought that you are joining a lilting note that is already in progress, and then softening while maintaining the vibrato, vowel and intonation.  I think that will help provoke the muscular control you seek, and the tone quality you desire.

I hope this is helpful.

Last edited by Steven Fraser (2014-12-12 16:43:50)


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#11 2014-12-12 11:09:26

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

Steven Fraser wrote:

I hope this is helpful.

Ha ha i think that is an understatement. That is some very sound advice, really hit home base. The medium and even lower volumes is working wonders. After reading your advice, and reading what daniel wrote things are starting to re align very quick. I have not always had vibrato issues, it just slowly poked its head in more and more till it was quite obvious. However, after the short amount of time i have had to work with it(was stupid swamped yesterday) i feel everything clicking back into place or even a better place. I was def over supporting by the way, the mid and low volume let me know that very quickly.

I really think what happened was the roles i was put in, wanted a big voice. Then once my voice was there, everybody kept saying, its big but i want it bigger and bigger, yes I felt my hula hoop was getting way to big for my waist lol. I can almost bet, that continuing on for sometime finally started making me pick up bad habits of over supporting trying to sound bigger than i was. Also prob over abduction of the folds, as I believe initial tests have shown, my volume is actual louder and more clear with backing off support and closure.

danielformica wrote:

You should listen to people like stevie wonder.

I did actually, and i listened to a few others i thought would translate in my head what you were trying to tell me. However my mind actually picked up more it seemed listening to some of your work, i found that interesting. Not bad for some basement training ha ha. Well I guess 20 years of being in the thunderdome doesnt hurt either lol

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-12 11:10:05)

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#12 2014-12-12 12:17:27

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: vibrato question on lighter singing

m.i.r. wrote:

Well I guess 20 years of being in the thunderdome doesnt hurt either lol

Just remember, two men enter, one man leaves.

And master blaster rules Bartertown.


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