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#1 2014-12-08 07:45:42

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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attempt at combining...comments?

This is my idea of combining operatic belt with a more modern style belt, i can go higher and lower, just picked the note at random. Sucks with a cell phone still, havent finished my home studio yet(only for decent demos and song writing) though will have it done before christmas, super excited for that one. I used to use extra studio time if i got finished in a session early to do random stuff. But havent had that in the last few months, guess i have been a slow poke lol.

So anyways...thoughts?comments?

Forgot to add this in before someone says it. Yes I know the term belt doesnt excist in the classical world, but figured it was just easier putting it that way.

https://app.box.com/s/jhyqm8zvcdzab1spfsx7

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-08 07:49:48)

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2014-12-08 07:45:42

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#2 2014-12-08 08:22:34

Martin H
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Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 1186
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

@m.i.r

Sounds nice. I guess the reason why you call it operatic is because you are using a darker sound color than normally used in belting.

Last edited by Martin H (2014-12-08 08:23:04)

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#3 2014-12-08 11:07:58

m.i.r.
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Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Yeah, well some of that darkness comes from the crap mic on my phone. I have been trying to find the happy medium to get a modern brighter sound, yet still keep a configuration that is powerfull and reliable for me.

Just an example I went to an audition close to a year ago. I knew they were looking for a more "shrill" sound, very broadway ish. Anyways during that time i was working on a high and light config, while attempting to add power and cut, trying to ditch the darker sound. Well it was somewhat stable in a controlled practice enviroment, however actually performing with it...lets just say i stunk it up....not my most proud moment lol. I knew one of the producers from a couple commercials, i had to b.s. a little and say i was sick trying to sing lol. Try to save a little face, embarrasing to say the least.

Anyways, this got way longer than expected. Cutting it short, I am very reliable with the "classical" approach. So have been trying to "modern it out" little by little by slight changes to the track, while still keeping the same basic mechanical config. I guess everyone always wants what they dont have lol. I want lighter, then i see daniel formica write he wants to be able to sing "beautiful" like frank sinatra. I bet sinatra said before, he wishes he could sing high light and powerfull like daniel can lol. I also bet the cat wished it could bark and the dog wish for a meow ha ha.

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-08 11:11:31)

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#4 2014-12-08 11:14:35

Martin H
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Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 1186
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

@m.i.r

If you want a brighter sound you'll have to raise the larynx.

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#5 2014-12-08 13:01:17

FelipeCarvalho
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From: Brasil
Registered: 2011-07-28
Posts: 2889
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

That´s sounding really nice m.i.r

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#6 2014-12-08 13:45:44

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Martin H wrote:

@m.i.r

If you want a brighter sound you'll have to raise the larynx.

I think that depends on what he means by "brighter".  A bit more twang would go a long way toward increasing brightness, and a small vowel adjustment (or even fronting the tongue) can do it too.


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#7 2014-12-08 18:34:19

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

FelipeCarvalho wrote:

That´s sounding really nice m.i.r

Thanks Felipe i really appreciate it.

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#8 2014-12-08 18:52:16

m.i.r.
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Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
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Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Steven Fraser wrote:

Martin H wrote:

@m.i.r

If you want a brighter sound you'll have to raise the larynx.

I think that depends on what he means by "brighter".  A bit more twang would go a long way toward increasing brightness, and a small vowel adjustment (or even fronting the tongue) can do it too.

You hit the nail on the head. My voice will cut and carry in a hall, it has alot of bite in person. There is also been a problem in classifying my voice. It has went from a lyric baritone, to a robust, to a Leggiero tenor because of my extended high range yet low end i can add baritone weight to. Now people have been saying spinto, I know,it doesnt matter for contemporary music, but its still nice to know.

However, I have been doing all this soul searching because i have been trying to add more mid range bite. I have been getting that through fold closure and a full open track as of now, which it does have bite there. However, I have been really wanting to add twang to give more of that mid range jump and almost a close to uncomfortable bite for contemporary. This has completely eluded me though, I have always added twang past at a b4 and higher. However, trying to add it below that sounds terrible, like calling a cat in heat ha ha. Or just feels like i have completelt closed my throat. I know i cant separate larynx function and the epiglottitis at the lower ranges, and i havent found anything anywhere that says how. So as i said, you hit the nail on the head, just completely lost on how to do it.

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#9 2014-12-08 19:09:40

Martin H
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Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 1186
Reputation :   31 

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Steven Fraser wrote:

I think that depends on what he means by "brighter".  A bit more twang would go a long way toward increasing brightness, and a small vowel adjustment (or even fronting the tongue) can do it too.

Of course it depends. Though a raised larynx, twang, higher tongue and also smile/bite goes hand in hand.

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#10 2014-12-08 19:48:37

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Martin H wrote:

Steven Fraser wrote:

I think that depends on what he means by "brighter".  A bit more twang would go a long way toward increasing brightness, and a small vowel adjustment (or even fronting the tongue) can do it too.

Of course it depends. Though a raised larynx, twang, higher tongue and also smile/bite goes hand in hand.

I am in complete agreement with you, as that is what experience has shown. However, supposedly, you can seperate the function without rising the larynx , at least that is what a few singers i have worked with said in the classical field. However, when asked how to accomplish this, they have sort of dodged the question. I have no idea and have had zero luck. Any type of "squillo" achieved has been through closure, open track and compression. However, the idea of controlling the epiglottitis individually is definitely an interesting idea i would love to figure out if its not a myth. Getting that mid range spike with less work would be awesome. I do use a traditional twang approach to the high end past a b4. However, as i said, when i use this lower in my mix, i am not pleased with it, doesnt sound right.

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#11 2014-12-08 22:48:08

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

m.i.r. wrote:

Martin H wrote:

Steven Fraser wrote:

I think that depends on what he means by "brighter".  A bit more twang would go a long way toward increasing brightness, and a small vowel adjustment (or even fronting the tongue) can do it too.

Of course it depends. Though a raised larynx, twang, higher tongue and also smile/bite goes hand in hand.

I am in complete agreement with you, as that is what experience has shown. However, supposedly, you can seperate the function without rising the larynx , at least that is what a few singers i have worked with said in the classical field. However, when asked how to accomplish this, they have sort of dodged the question. I have no idea and have had zero luck. Any type of "squillo" achieved has been through closure, open track and compression. However, the idea of controlling the epiglottitis individually is definitely an interesting idea i would love to figure out if its not a myth. Getting that mid range spike with less work would be awesome. I do use a traditional twang approach to the high end past a b4. However, as i said, when i use this lower in my mix, i am not pleased with it, doesnt sound right.

m.i.r, Martin H:

I actually agree very often with Martin H. What he describes here are ways to tune the resonances, and they are all valid, they work. Knowing which one(s) to use depends on the actual tone quality you intend to produce. 

For example, raising the larynx, smile, and 'bite' have effects that can be isolated (done singly) or combined.  Jaw drop, lip rounding and epilaryngeal narrowing have their effects, too.

All of them move the resonances. With this in mind, YOU have to choose what you would like the resulting tone quality to be, and then look at the technique options available to achieve it.

I smiled when you commented on the dodgy replies from the classical field.  So much of that is taught by example, and unless the person took a pedagogy class (and a good one at that) they might not have connected with how to teach it.  I am classically trained, and its quite possible to sing well and have no clue what is really going on.  Sad, but true.  But then, its not necessary to be a mechanic to be a world-class race driver...

Would you do something for me?  I'd like to hear you sing a mid-volume, diatonic (major) scale on Ah from Ab3 to Ab4, and then the same scale on O and Ay  I want to hear how you handle the notes between D4 and G4, and how things are the same, or different, with the various vowels.

Last edited by Steven Fraser (2014-12-08 22:49:12)


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#12 2014-12-08 22:56:26

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Do you want it staccato or legato? Also O as in oh no, and ay as eye, or as in nay?

Last edited by m.i.r. (2014-12-08 22:59:55)

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#13 2014-12-08 22:58:08

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

m.i.r. wrote:

Do you want it staccato or legato?

Legato.


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#14 2014-12-08 23:00:19

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Sorry added to the question lol

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#15 2014-12-08 23:08:27

Steven Fraser
Charter Member of TMV Voice Council
From: Plano, Texas
Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 1801
Reputation :   101 

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

m.i.r. wrote:

Do you want it staccato or legato? Also O as in oh no, and ay as eye, or as in nay?

Oh, as in OH, NO!   and Ay as in nay or Hey!.  Actually, the non-diphong sound as in the 2nd syllable of  German 'gegeben', or German 'der' and 'den' or 'sehr' will do very nicely.


Best Regards,

Steven Fraser

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#16 2014-12-08 23:19:25

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Ok give me a few. I will do a quick one when i get back in my car.

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#17 2014-12-09 00:12:56

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: attempt at combining...comments?

Ok here you go maestro. About half volume, now since I had no reference point, i hope it is close enough to an a major scale for you to hear what you need. That is the a major scale in my head ha ha ha. I literally set down in the car and did this, stuck out fixing a techs mistake right now. Hopefully the no warm up and one quick take gives you the info you need.

https://app.box.com/s/lztuv322fefoh25qae8w

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