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#1 2014-11-29 10:27:16

Aelpee
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2013-04-25
Posts: 45
Reputation :   

Wierd noise

Hey all! It's me and my newbie questions again. I've been trying to reduce the shoutiness of my higher notes and have run into a problem bit of a problem. It seems that whenever I cut the air back even a little I go to this wierd crackly buzz sound. Does this mean I'm cutting the air back too much? https://www.dropbox.com/s/w04dla54hnkcg … .mp3?raw=1 (the first is just ascending normally with the yell quality coming into the sound and the second is cutting back the air with the wierd sound).

I'm trying to get some sort of connection from my chest voice to the head voice but it just seems like an impossible feat. I can somewhat do it when going down from a high note like this https://www.dropbox.com/s/zweon0comkffwnb/a4.mp3?raw=1 but whenever I ascend I always start either yelling, swallowing the sound trying to cover or strangling it by trying to hold the air back. It's really frustrating. :(

Last edited by Aelpee (2014-11-29 10:31:20)

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2014-11-29 10:27:16

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#2 2014-11-29 11:12:34

Khassera
TMV Forum Member
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2013-08-02
Posts: 347
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Try this just for s&g's:

(From Lugo)

Pick a note, preferably in your head voice, that is, a high note you can hit, and go "HEE" with a very cackly witch-like sound, and slide it (fast) down to a "YAH!" in your chest. Do that a couple of times until you get a smooth transition. Don't aim to go as loud as possible, aim to go as "sharp" as possible. The tone should be sharp, not "sharp" as in overtuned.


"'Means are many' said the hag as she wiped the table with a cat."

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#3 2014-11-30 01:31:06

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Well from my humble opinion it sounds as if you need to work on fold closure. The weird sound you speak of is vocal fry. It sounds to me like you are really focusing on relaxing, which is great!! When you backed off support and fold closure, you became so relaxed you went into vocal fry, which your folds are connected, but they are so relaxed they are just blowing apart with no rhyme or rhythm. Which is why you can almost count the frequency for lack of better word. Also vocal fry is suppose to be all ta action and almost no ct action. With proper fold closure it is like the sound is almost in front of you with nothing left in your head. Though many people experience many different sensations.

Anyways, hearing your complaints and samples i truly believe if you work on fold closure exercises you will be happy with the results. There is a stigma that says you should be totally relaxed while singing, and i believe that really gets people into trouble(my self included) but if you look at some of the best singers of our time they paint a different picture. Pavorotti for example, when he was training he describe there was a time in the beginning his face would turn red and he felt his head was going to blow off from the closure. He also described the type of closure feel as a pinch after he was trained, many others described that as the same sensation. They describe as feeling the pinch and support, but they feel no air flowing(which gets people in another form of trouble, but that is a different post)

So yes free of tension, but dont forget singing with power (which sounds like that is your goal) is a physical activity. Also closing your folds before the onset of breath is very helpfull, gives you something to lean on and helps with tuning. Anyways, if you want to give it a try, stand up as you are about to sing. Take a breath and hold it with the glottis open. Then act like you are about to say something but stop, you will feel your glottis close. The slowly just release air through the glottis holding the closed position. This isnt about singing just about feeling the sensations of closure and onset as well as keeping the folds abducted. If you like the results of the experiment i can share more info or exercises. I am also assuming you already know how to breathe from the diaphragm as well as hold back air with the body. If you do not know this let me know, i can share exercises for that as well.

P.s. If you do like this and start working on it more. Then be careful with support, it will be easy to try and over blow if you are used to lose folds. With firm closure, you need alot less air and the support is more in the form of compression instead of air flowing.

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#4 2014-11-30 01:42:57

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

I meant sensations of closure at onset lol. Please excuse the post I was typing on my phone so could only see a certain amount. Also my kiddo was attacking me and I kept losing my train of Thought, but hopefully you get the jist lol

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#5 2014-11-30 02:03:48

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Oh and one more thing this is the last i promise lol, as i said lost my train of thought. You can accomplish a lighter sound by still keeping the folds together, just change support and the closure strength. However, if you want the airy light sound, then you will need to let the folds stay losely together while over blowing the support a bit. On your first sample you went airy a bit, then when you went higher you connected a bit more which is why you went into fry. You would have to keep them apart all the way and support with more air. However, that approach is not recommended for an extended time, it drys your folds and causes them to swell. Just ask john mayer

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#6 2014-11-30 20:44:08

Aelpee
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2013-04-25
Posts: 45
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Hey, thanks alot m.i.r! I read your post and tried to fool around with vocal fry and cord closure exercises a bit more. I tried giving the tone different levels of compression from "I'm going to sh** my pants" to no compression at all and it really made me realize that there's alot more room between proper closure and strain than I had previously thought! For the first time I didn't "feel" the sound in my throat, it felt a bit like it was floating. Not a magical solution to everything but feels like one more piece in the never ending puzzle of vocal technique. :)

P.S. Khassera I tried what you suggested and it sounded really obnoxious and horrible but it connected from top to bottom and bottom to top (and I guess that was the point). :lol: I think I let my larynx raise too much though, it didn't feel strained but the sound was like a little kid who's high on sugar or something "HEEEEEEE!".

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#7 2014-11-30 21:39:36

Khassera
TMV Forum Member
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2013-08-02
Posts: 347
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Aelpee wrote:

P.S. Khassera I tried what you suggested and it sounded really obnoxious and horrible but it connected from top to bottom and bottom to top (and I guess that was the point). :lol: I think I let my larynx raise too much though, it didn't feel strained but the sound was like a little kid who's high on sugar or something "HEEEEEEE!".

Awesome. It's supposed to sound terrible. Not heady/light, rather really piercingly awful. When you learn to connect and slide down you can make the "yah!" into a wider, more open tone, and soon you'll be able to do so further upwards the range and the tone should get better overall. Granted it's a pretty reckless exercise, but I love doing it. You'll have times when you really, really hit the correct placement and it feels cool to be able to make the tone. Very heavy metal.


"'Means are many' said the hag as she wiped the table with a cat."

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#8 2014-12-01 00:27:57

m.i.r.
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 92
Reputation :   

Re: Wierd noise

Aelpee wrote:

Hey, thanks alot m.i.r! I read your post and tried to fool around with vocal fry and cord closure exercises a bit more. I tried giving the tone different levels of compression from "I'm going to sh** my pants" to no compression at all and it really made me realize that there's alot more room between proper closure and strain than I had previously thought! For the first time I didn't "feel" the sound in my throat, it felt a bit like it was floating. Not a magical solution to everything but feels like one more piece in the never ending puzzle of vocal technique. :)

Hey no problem man, glad you had positive results with it. Eventually the closure will get so clean and precise that you will need only a small amount of support. You will actually have to start holding your diaphragm back in a way, or the appogio. Also the more and more the voice will be out of your head.
Also the principle khassera is trying to get you to work on, while bringing your headvoice down is a good exercise for lightening the voice and sing on a thinner edge. The more tools you have in the garage the better lol.

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