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#1 2014-11-21 05:23:34

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

The Rose Practice

I finally had a few minutes to record a little bit. Let me know what you think.
Any comments or tips appreciated.

       https://soundcloud.com/mdew-4/the-rose-practice


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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2014-11-21 05:23:34

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#2 2014-11-22 01:52:48

ronws
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Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: The Rose Practice

I am usually one to eschew comparing to the original. But I will always have Bette's version of this song (written by Kris Kristofferson, no less) stuck in my head. And her heady and light tonality. Whereas, you have a heavier and beefier sound, heavier and beefier than Bay's voice, for example. And so, I was feeling a disparity. Your pitch was good, it just sounded so different.

Which has led me to another thought, even for myself. Some of the most beloved covers I have liked by a named artist, they made a different arrangement with different instruments and totally in their own style. Like Dolly Parton doing a bluegrass version, complete with banjos, of "Shine" by Collective Soul. Ronnie James Dio's quasi-opera metal version of "Dream On" by Aerosmith.

And so, I ask myself, even recently, can I improve a cover by changing the genre? I have been watching a new show called "Stalker" and they take really famous songs and transform them into something that takes you by surprise when you recognize the lyrics.

I now know how you felt about my version "I've Just Seen a Face" by the Beatles. While I technically did okay, it just was so different that one is at a loss to describe.

What if we put in a little Roy Clark chicken-pickin? Let your southern accent shine through a little more? I know, that goes against what I have said about clean vowels. Kind of like Marcus wanting me to have more of a country sound on "Fire on the Mountain."

All of which is opinion, to be taken with a grain of salt. Or a Jack and Coke, whichever works. :lol:

I like what you did as an artistic endeavor and I think it would be cool to change genres with this song.

Last edited by ronws (2014-11-22 01:54:55)


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#3 2014-11-22 01:54:35

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
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Re: The Rose Practice


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#4 2014-11-22 01:58:33

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: The Rose Practice

The original, by Collective Soul


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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#5 2014-11-22 02:05:43

MDEW
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Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

Thanks Ronws.  I really did think about trying to emulate what the BEATLES would do with this.(that was not this recording though)
    I dropped the Key from C to A to better fit my range. Bay actually raised the key from C to C#.
    I did not know that Kris wrote this. I think I will try to find a version of him singing it to see what his interpretation was.
   Maybe I will record this one more time and just wing it my way (without thinking about it too much) and see what happens.
   Any other thoughts?


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#6 2014-11-22 02:57:20

MDEW
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Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

:)   With "Shine" Dolly's version and Collective Souls', there were other people giving input to what works and what does not. That is what we are doing here. Only it is not immediate and in person.  Some one to say "Dolly, lose that electric guitar you are trying to put in there and get yourself a Banjo player." ..... Maybe I should've played my Banjo? :o


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#7 2014-11-28 05:04:32

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

I tried this again. It is apparent that something was off in the first draft. An undefinable tone issue? Being that the only responce that I received was was from Ronws I must conclude that it was not worthy to even comment on from the masses.
   Thank you Ronws for your honesty. That gives you the Creds for when you do say good job on something you mean it. :)
  Here is another take. Responces good or bad appreciated and any more clues to what may have gone wrong with the first recording or this one will be helpful. :)


       https://soundcloud.com/mdew-4/the-rose-practice-2


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#8 2014-11-28 20:54:39

Clint Torres
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From: Where the sun don't shine
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 83
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Re: The Rose Practice

Warning! This post contains a BUT. :D 

I really enjoyed both versions.  Contrary to your assertion that the first sample had tone issues, I disagree. I thought it sounded really good. Are you playing guitar? Really nice job man. As for the second take that was also very good. The guitar was a bit modified (bordering on rock) but it worked.  However i found the vocals pretty much the same. Still good but the same. Now here comes the dreaded BUT. (it's not really bad).

Your vocals are sounding good MDEW. My only critique or rather suggestion would be that I was a little bored or rather left waiting. I'm not much of a blues fan but I do understand what makes it tick. In a 12 bar blues you have a progression of I IV V.  The one,four, five.  The "I" is the root. The IV builds tension and the V resolves the tension.  Ok, your song wasn't blues or a I IV V but still. The point is that it lacked a tension or resolution.  I was left waiting! 

In other words, it got boring. The tone was really good. Pitch was good. The whole damn song was good. but I wqas waiting for something interesting to happen. Learn to play man! play with your voice.  It's a little difficult with a static backing track but if you're in control with your own instruments go for it dude!  No matter how pleasant your voice is it gets tiresome listening to Bum, bum, bum BUM BUM,bum bum.  I prefer Bum, bum, bum, BUM BUM< BUUUUUUUM, BUUUM, BUM BUM,  BUUUUM, bum bum.


Overall: Well done:)

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#9 2014-11-28 21:56:22

MDEW
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Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

Thanks Clint and Yes, I understand the boredom of a repeating rhythm.  But this is a singers forum so I just made a guitar track as something to sing to.
    Also for this song the excitement is not in the melody line but the building harmonies. The lead melody stays the same throughout the song. I was going to add a distorted electric guitar lead for the missing extra harmonies and the excitement but after flubbing 10 attempts I decided to just post what i had and get feed back on the singing itself.
   The distorted electric guitar rhythm was also because I planned for the guitar lead as high harmony for the third verse.
    Good call on the bordom thing. If that is what is missing then that is the info I need. I have been backing myself with simple rhythms just to get feedback on the singing.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#10 2014-11-28 22:25:04

Clint Torres
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From: Where the sun don't shine
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 83
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Re: The Rose Practice

Just to be clear.  I am only referring to the vocals and maybe a little more contour. On this particular song, your, interpretation was a little straight lined and static. I bit more contour  may have made it a bit more interesting.  Singing isn't only about staying on pitch and following a melody. Interpretation is a key element as well as feel and overall composition.

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#11 2014-11-28 22:47:05

MDEW
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Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

Thanks Clint, I had thought that was what got me in trouble on the first recording(at least with my tone). Bringing a little more of my personality and expression into the higher phrase "Some say Love, It is a hunger..." and I thought I was adding a bit of angst and forcefulness into "When the Night...."  Guess it didn't come through. So the second time I tried to stay focused and consistent.
    It is a crap shoot until you hit on the correct ingredient. I will work on it.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#12 2014-11-29 00:44:17

singerguy1
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Registered: 2012-05-18
Posts: 10
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Re: The Rose Practice

I liked both versions MDEW - if I had to say anything I'd say spend some time with doing some nice dopey lip rolls! I think it would help those higher notes flow out a little bit more rather than squeezing them out. Nice singing though! I  enjoyed the tracks and backups!

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#13 2014-11-29 02:30:48

aravindmadis
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Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 58
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Re: The Rose Practice

Hey MDEW.. Not familiar with the song but I am always a sucker for rhythm guitarist singers.. Used to play guitar and sing when I was younger.  I don't know if the profile pic is you in person.. If so, and I mean it like a compliment, you have the voice of a much younger person :)   

Clint makes a very interesting point about repetition.  I guess he is referring to improvisation.  This is something I am trying to improve in my singing.. There are two ways to do it, either in the beginning of the phrase, or more easily in the end of phrases.. I have started listening intently to great singers..  Listen to Freddie sing "Too much love will kill you" or from a totally different genre, Michael Jackson sing "You are not alone".. Pay attention to the way they end phrases.. They improvise and always take each phrase in a slightly different direction.  Sometimes it is a breathy tone, sometimes it is gritty, sometimes something else, you get the point.. I guess this can only come with feeling the song in your heart and just "letting go"..  That way you don't sound repetitive..

Do you play guitar while singing, or record the guitar separately?  The latter may really help with this portion.. There is a limit to which humans can do different things well at the same time..

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#14 2014-11-29 03:16:59

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

Yes, that is the real me in the avatar. :P  I guess not being able to sing Aerosmith has saved my voice from an early distruction.  :/  But I am still working on it. :lol: :rolleyes:   Hey, are you saying I look old? :mad:  :lol: :P :cool:
    I usually start by Playing and singing and then rerecording the parts separate from that point.
   Wild World was one take playing and singing at the same time.


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#15 2014-11-29 22:58:54

Clint Torres
TMV Forum Member
From: Where the sun don't shine
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 83
Reputation :   

Re: The Rose Practice

Hey MDEW.  I was in the car today and this song came on the radio.  I'll be damned if this doesn't sound like you. (well, to me anyway).  I think this would be a good cover for you.  As I was listening I was thinking about what I mentioned above. Notice how he adds color and texture and interpretation to his vocals by weaving in and out and up and down in the melody.  Man, you guys sound alike :D   Anyone else think so?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rxgGVIrDqY

Last edited by Clint Torres (2014-11-29 23:01:51)

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#16 2014-11-29 23:10:14

MDEW
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 2866
Reputation :   32 

Re: The Rose Practice

Thanks Clint.   That is one of the first songs I learned to play and sing. That could also be why I have a similer tone. :D


"Knock me down, It's all in vain. I'll get right back on my feet again."  Pat Benatar

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#17 2014-11-30 03:36:12

ronws
TMV Forum Member
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 11731
Reputation :   139 

Re: The Rose Practice

Clint, you hit the nail right on the head. At first, I often thought of MDEW as sounding a bit like Phil Collins but this is a closer match.

In fact, MDEW, I bet you could really do justice to "Sister Golden Hair," if you were so inclined.


"When the daylight is rising up in my eyes ..." - Klaus Meine

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